Comments on: All Saints Day https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:33:52 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Nostroum https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73016 Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:33:52 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73016 Serious question, if some hicks in the sticks “marginalize” Obama, can you say Obama is “marginalized”? Can marginalized people marginalize more powerful people? Interesting if so.

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By: ASDL https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73014 Sun, 15 Nov 2015 05:42:53 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73014 Sam –

Your contention that a student who gains admission to Yale automatically forfeits a right to claim being marginalized reveals a woeful lack of imagination. As if attacks against Barack Obama’s citizenship cannot be attributed to his marginalization as a Black (biracial) man, just because he is literally the most powerful person in the world? The fact that he is so marginalized despite the status he has attained is exactly the problem.

And your reframing the Yale students’ demands as unrelated to race but merely a form of gangster-ism simply shows that (like many White liberals in recent weeks) your traditional status of enlightened patron who can explain the world and bestow liberty is being challenged by people of color who might know more about social justice than you, and it just irks you. You find it irksome that you are being lectured. And since you’ve never felt the burden of your skin color (and your ancestors were not enslaved), this is the greatest injustice you’ve ever suffered – having the world explained to you.

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By: SocraticGadfly https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73013 Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:36:23 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73013 Finally, a semi-rhetorical question: How much will things like Mizzou and Yale boost the popularity of MOOCs among the right?

“Hey, parents, Yale classes and Yale ‘credentialism’ for your kid without them ever having to attend Yale!”

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By: SocraticGadfly https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73012 Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:30:48 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73012 As for appropriation, should we tell a Japanese-American student not to wear a baseball uni as a Halloween costume because that’s the flip side of appropriation?

While I certainly reject conservatives’ bashing of academia, the New New Left continues to hand them plenty of talking points, both students and faculty like Melissa Click. And, had she not done something idiotic, a Melissa Click would have remained quietly teaching, or “teaching” students whatever it is she teaches, or “teaches.”

http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2015/11/journalism-vs-mass-communication.html

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By: SocraticGadfly https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73011 Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:27:20 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73011 I’ve posted this in various spots on Facebook, and worked it into a blog post of mine about Mizzou.

From Ken White (Popehat), this is a very good piece about distinguishing between safe places as “shield” (good) vs. safe places as “sword” (bad). https://popehat.com/2015/11/09/safe-spaces-as-shield-safe-spaces-as-sword/

As for the students? I seriously doubt any of them had “mental breakdowns.” If a flight of anger is being labeled a “mental breakdown” in seriousness, then they may be mentally at risk. If, as I suspect, the phrase and labeling, per White, is being brandished as a sword, not held up as a shield, they’re disgusting, with the disrespect for actual mental illness, the Yalies.

As for the free speech issue at Mizzou? I know of recent graduates, now journalists themselves, who seem not to find it’s that big of a deal. (Note: I am a newspaper editor, and have seen this on Twitter, and it’s not confined to newspapers in liberal enclaves.)

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By: Del Paxton https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73010 Sat, 14 Nov 2015 07:08:46 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73010 “Free speech”, broadly speaking, is not what is at risk in most campus disputes.

This assertion does not survive to the end of your essay. For all your concerns about the spate of campus protests becoming “an intramural struggle for elite power in the political economy to come” and an effort to seize custodial management of the corporatized university (as opposed to a free-speech fight) what’s the ultimate outcome? The protesters take control and… wait for it… stifle speech.

There are a lot of moving parts in these protests, and it’s worthwhile to disassemble and catalog them, as you have done here. But when the Rube Goldberg machine is assembled, what it produces are muzzles.

So sure, this isn’t a free-speech conflict per se. It’s a power struggle. But the inevitable and first thing that the victors will do is shut down dissent.

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By: EK https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73006 Fri, 13 Nov 2015 04:17:01 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73006 http://youtu.be/iKcWu0tsiZM
This video would be funny if it was not so scarily accurate.
Students at Yale and Swarthmore should be capable of doing their due diligence before applying to a place that so manifestly makes them unhappy. If you did appropriate due diligence then you should have applied to colleges that met your requirements. If you end up at a college where you are unhappy, transfer and be happy.
Both the Yale and Swat admissions offices rejected between 86 and 94 students for each student requiring a “safe space” . Most of those rejected students would be happy to be “sytematically discriminated” on either elite liberal arts college campus

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73004 Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:12:22 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73004 Just briefly, to GSTally:

I think you misread me. I do think that the ongoing reaction at Wesleyan including the student government approach is about constricting and controlling speech with which the activists and student government leaders disagree. What I’m suggesting is that the move the student government made is even worse: it combines the worst features of neoliberal corporate policy with controls on speech. The rest of the essay from that point onward is intended to suggest that this is a dimension of this entire struggle–that at least some activists are wittingly or unwittingly moving towards a class-based infrastructure of control over the expressive lives of people below them on a class hierarchy, often through institutions or corporations.

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By: Sam Barrows https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73003 Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:51:01 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73003 Max,
I am not saying that the students have more structural power than the professors, only that they have enough that their claims to be helpless are laughable. The reason the email itself is being ignored is that it is as innocuous as it comes. I am well aware that students claim otherwise. My point is that we do not need to lend credence to these claims merely because the students are (relatively) less privileged than Christakis. We can look at the email, look at their claims of offense, and then determine whether those complaints are valid. The fallacy that someone’s personal, subjective evaluation of the hurt they have experienced is always 100% valid and unquestionable has taken root here. In this case I believe that claims that students at Yale who claim to be so damaged by this email that it is impairing their ability to function in an academic context are either being disingenuous or, if they aren’t, are temperamentally unsuited to the demands of a Yale degree.

If the email that Christakis sent genuinely caused unbearable harm to a student then that student does not belong at Yale, or any other institute of higher learning. I say this not out of malice or a desire to punish these kids- many of whom are undoubtedly well-meaning- but simply as an observation that earning a degree from a rigorous school like Yale or Swarthmore comes with the implicit requirement that the earner be willing to confront uncomfortable ideas as long as those ideas are presented in a respectful way. If they are unwilling to do that they should not get the degree. You don’t get it just for showing up (and, of course, tendering the attendent fee).

A student saying that they need to be protected from the content of Christakis’s email is saying that they are not ready for college and do not belong there.

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By: verywerry https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/11/09/all-saints-day/comment-page-1/#comment-73002 Wed, 11 Nov 2015 19:27:21 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2900#comment-73002 Max,
On the subject of elitism at Yale: the College Access Index reveals that beneath the surface racial diversity at places like Yale, there is very, very little economic diversity. I doubt that many of the minority students in the videos attended traditional public high schools. (There is quite a lot of racial and economic diversity in places like the University of California system, but not the ivies.) So I’m skeptical of your argument about the “marginality” of the protesting students. If the woman who penned the email is a lecturer her position may well in fact be extremely precarious. And the assistant professor who called for students to block a reporter’s access looks very likely to be fired. But screaming, cursing and ordering a professor to resign? I can’t imagine much will come of that from Yale (sadly, many bad things may come from other quarters).

How is it wrong to connect the protest in the video with censure or calls for firing? That is explicitly what (some of) the students called for. I don’t see how noting this sidesteps talking about the content of Christakis’s email, which is…unbelievably tepid. That anyone could read it, and react the way the students in the video did, or claim the email caused people to have mental breakdowns or be unable to sleep is almost beyond belief.

Quite apart from anything else, such controversies provide extraordinary ammunition – and will for much time to come – to right wing causes and interests. They confirm their narrative about the left generally, and the academic left in particular – that it is radically elitist, populated by”race hustlers” driving a “grievance industry,” and is radically authoritarian at its heart.

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