Comments on: On the Eating of Lotuses https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/10/16/on-the-eating-of-lotuses/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Sun, 15 Nov 2015 11:53:27 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/10/16/on-the-eating-of-lotuses/comment-page-1/#comment-73015 Sun, 15 Nov 2015 11:53:27 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2867#comment-73015 Del, the point for me is that ideological comparisons are not interesting here (and this is the rock on which many historical analogies founder, because it involves cheap score-settling most of the time). It’s the sociological/aspirational comparison that’s important. This Nation article on interviews with ISIS prisoners actually adds some weight to this point, I think: http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-interviewing-isis-prisoners/

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By: Del Paxton https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/10/16/on-the-eating-of-lotuses/comment-page-1/#comment-73009 Sat, 14 Nov 2015 06:22:39 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2867#comment-73009 I recognize that this talk of the Spanish Republicans and ISIS being “110% different” is the kind of throat-clearing prophylaxis necessary to prevent your leftist readers prone to hysterics from sending you outraged notes and ignoring the rest of your argument, but this goes too far. No one who looks up to Stalin can be said to be the opposite of any murderous and repressive regime. There are important differences between the Republicans and ISIS – perhaps to the point that the former provides no useful tools for analyzing the latter – but fire and ice they are not.

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By: Art Deco https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/10/16/on-the-eating-of-lotuses/comment-page-1/#comment-72992 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:14:02 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2867#comment-72992 The answer in some sense is the same as the answer about young foreigners who flocked to Spain to fight the fascists.

The Nationalist forces were drawn from every political element in Spain opposed to the government – the Falangists, Carlists, Alfonsine monarchists, the bulk of the professional military, and (though not in organized form) the ‘autonomous right’. The Falangists were that element which had the most in common with Italian fascism, but even the Falangists had some serious disagreements with Mussolini (much less Hitler).

I think of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade as genuinely heroic if also slightly naive;

No, red haze nuisances fighting for a crummy cause.

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By: In the provinces https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/10/16/on-the-eating-of-lotuses/comment-page-1/#comment-72991 Sun, 01 Nov 2015 20:10:31 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2867#comment-72991 You might want to be careful with your age of total war analogies. There were lots of opportunities back then for idealistic young people from different countries to sign up to fight and die for a cause. The Charlemagne Division of the Waffen SS comes to mind. Both it and the International Brigades were the tools of totalitarian, genocidal dictators, who cynically exploited youthful idealism for Great Power politics and their own megalomaniacal ambitions. The extensive funding ISIS and Salafist groups receive from Gulf State elites, or the scarcely hidden support ISIS has enjoyed from the Erdogan government in Turkey point in similar directions.

But there’s a larger problem with your post, one often apparent in attempts by secular, western leftists to understand Islamism. You have projected your own frustrations with current conditions and your own aspirations for a different, better future onto Islamist volunteers. How do you know they share them? Or should we consider different motives–the desire, for instance, to hold women as sex slaves, which, by all accounts, has been an important motivating factor and a major part of the ISIS recruiting drive?

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By: LFC https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/10/16/on-the-eating-of-lotuses/comment-page-1/#comment-72990 Sat, 31 Oct 2015 22:49:56 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2867#comment-72990 Food for thought here.

Couple of quick points. First, Obama administration policy in re Syria has been quite conscious, istm, of the limits of what an “empire” can do in a situation that is very complicated and confusing and resistant to easy manipulation. Recently the admin is realizing it needs to do a little more, but it’s still not a massive intervention. The air strikes vs ISIS have supported indigenous resistance to ISIS, and thus seem justified. ISIS’s own long-term military prospects are not especially favorable to it (or so argues a recent guest post on my blog by someone who has been following the situation).

Second, it might be nice if historians, instead of citing only what their fellow historians (in this case C. Maier, Frederick Cooper, and J. Burbank) have written about empire, would take a look at the large lit. on empire(s) produced by IR scholars, political scientists, and sociologists. I’m not saying you haven’t done that; I’m just struck that the two works on empire mentioned in this post are by historians. Not that the concerns are necessarily different, inasmuch as some of the work on empire by political scientists or sociologists also focuses on “a more analytic understanding of why empires, including modern Western ones, tend to experience certain kinds of recurrent crises and … fall prey to some of the same self-defeating uses of violence and injustice” as other political forms do.

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