Comments on: You And What Army? https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Tue, 03 Feb 2015 06:44:35 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Bob https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72804 Tue, 03 Feb 2015 06:44:35 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72804 I have a very odd reaction to this, and I’m curious to hear the thoughts of others. I’m a white man married to a black woman, and I have two children who black or half-black depending on how you like to define the term. I also have a distrust of the boundary-policing that identity politics often entails, which long predated my marriage or children.

It feels strange to be “an ally”, as if I personally have nothing at stake in how my children are treated by society, and also in how they choose to respond to it. It feels like an important part of being a father to these children to grapple with their status vis a vis society, and also to help them to do so, to provide a moral compass, and to set boundaries for them. But equally I am not black, and with that I recognize that I don’t understand the black experience from the inside, except as anyone can hope to understand another’s experience by sympathy.

Is there a set of roles for raising and guiding children that are different from the role of “ally” and “group member”? If so, what makes this relationship different in kind rather than degree from that of close friend or mentor? Surely this is exactly the experience any father of any woman has?

I can’t help but leave with conflicted feelings, and I would welcome answers that others may have.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72803 Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:35:50 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72803 In reply to Josh.

The thing is that it may not be the end of the world for the person so called, but it might be bad moment for the collective effort that a group or movement is pursuing. Because at least some of the time, the calling out is simultaneous with a move to control something potentially broad for purposes that are far narrower or more particular.

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By: Josh https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72802 Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:53:12 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72802 Absolutely! But being called out for attempting to dominate or control isn’t the end of the world, and if it really is a good-faith discussion there’s almost always a way to discuss that. It may require more effort on the part of the person who’s being called out than they’re used to, but, well, that’s basically the situation members of the out-group have found themselves in all along.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72801 Mon, 26 Jan 2015 16:40:02 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72801 In reply to Josh.

Ok, but consider that this is just a catch-22 slightly downstream of the way demands for allyship can generally establish a catch-22: e.g., that all expression runs the risk of being called out as an attempt to dominate or control if it is coming from a subject historically associated with domination, based on a retroactive assessment of whether its content is deemed acceptable or not.

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By: Josh https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72799 Sat, 24 Jan 2015 23:27:44 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72799 Better to articulate universal standards of justice and work towards them.

Right, this is the good-faith explanation for “All Lives Matter” instead of “Black Lives Matter”. Or the argument that discussions of the Ecole Polytechnique massacre shouldn’t have focused on the fact that the victims were women. Only it’s still misguided: injustice is not distributed equally. Focus on the universal and you erase the specific, targeted nature of injustice.

As for this:
It’s very likely that in regular reading of progressive conversations in social media you will come across many examples of white straight men or women telling other white straight men or women what it means to be an ally and what the content and appearance of proper ally behavior in the conversation at hand ought to be.

I know you don’t mean it to be, Tim, but this is a hell of a catch-22 you’ve set up. As a straight white person, tell another straight white person how to be a good ally and you’re arrogating something to yourself; don’t do it and you’re forcing members of the out-group to do something they’re probably sick and tired of doing, and are more likely to be ignored for to boot.

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By: Fred Zimmerman '82 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72797 Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:10:53 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72797 I think I like what you’re saying here a lot (although it’s so abstract it’s hard to be sure). One of my biggest beefs with the “check your privilege” crowd is that it defines people out of the in group. Better to articulate universal standards of justice and work towards them.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72796 Thu, 22 Jan 2015 17:21:34 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72796 In reply to CarlD.

Yes. Compromising down ought to be a serious red flag for anyone who is being named as an ally. Any movement that is expressing the view that they’re compromising down is almost inviting allies to mark their calendar for future betrayal. Compromising up means that the movement is communicating that their goals include a better world in which that movement will remain only one of many legitimate perspectives.

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By: CarlD https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2015/01/20/you-and-what-army/comment-page-1/#comment-72793 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 20:32:06 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2739#comment-72793 Again all this seems right to me. I’ll add the observation that much depends on whether one sees the movement compromising down from ideals or compromising up toward them. Platonists make very bad allies.

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