Comments on: Gamergate. Shit, We’re Still Only in Gamergate. https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2014/10/17/gamergate-shit-were-still-only-in-gamergate/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:15:16 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Mlaw https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2014/10/17/gamergate-shit-were-still-only-in-gamergate/comment-page-1/#comment-72754 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:15:16 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2704#comment-72754 Anonymous: I agree with Cyrus that the association with Gamergate makes your legitimate claims less, rather than more, likely to be heard. It’s the same issue there is with Men’s Rights groups/forums – there are some men with legitimate complaints who think that because men’s rights groups say some of the same things, they can use them as a forum for attention/redress. The problem is that these groups use means that are so unacceptable and make comments that are so hostile and despicable that no neutral (or non-psychotic) party is going to take anything they say seriously.

Any time there is that much anger and resentment and a misplaced sense of victimization, what’s going to be heard is just the virulent spewing of anger. Any message that appeals to logic or has a real basis in facts is going to become completely lost in the deluge. More importantly, by not standing up to people that are saying horrible hateful things or threatening real physical violence, you’re giving the appearance that you support them – to those people, to their victims and to the public. That takes away any real credibility you have, and frankly makes me care very little about the minor grievance you have.

It’s a little like a police officer who has not publicly condemned abusive or racist police behavior wanting to raise the issue of public disrespect for the police. If we, the public, think you’re part of (and you are if you aren’t strenuously and loudly objecting) a worse set of behavior, we really don’t care about your minor, if valid complaint. By associating yourself with Gamergate, your grievances are going to be weighed against the movements violent vitriol and physical threats against real people. There’s no way you’re going to get the result you want by standing with the movement. You’re only going to put people in very real danger and allow the most virulent “gamers” to take control of the movement without objection.

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By: Cyrus https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2014/10/17/gamergate-shit-were-still-only-in-gamergate/comment-page-1/#comment-72753 Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:48:41 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2704#comment-72753 anonymous@4:24, there’s a lot in your comment I disagree with, but I don’t want to start a fight on an unfamiliar blog either, so instead I’ll just focus on one bit that seems most relevant.

this event isn’t dying down I think is because there’s a subset of mad people (I am one of them) that have legitimate grievances and this is the only time we’ve seen a chance of it breaking through.

I think this isn’t true. Legitimate grievances do not, in fact, have a chance of breaking through. At best, maybe you could say that it was true once, maybe if it had gone in a wildly different direction early on, but it didn’t. Gamergate is inextricably about politics, opposing feminism, and threatening people they disagree with. Its manifesto literally spends less time and words on ethics and journalism than it does making sure it isn’t blamed for racism or sexism. (I realize that my link is a biased source, but I can’t watch the manifesto itself right now because YouTube is blocked by work filters. If GamerGate in general disapproves of the manifesto or that picture there actually misquotes it, fair enough, my mistake.) This is a group for which “social justice warrior” is an insult. For every single gamer who’s genuinely upset about objectivity and disclosures in product reviews or whatever the “legitimate grievances” are supposed to be, there are at least five who are genuinely upset about the existence of feminist commentaries on games.

If you really want to get attention for whatever “legitimate grievances” you feel are worth it, try doing so under a different name. “Gamergate” is taken.

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By: wallcat https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2014/10/17/gamergate-shit-were-still-only-in-gamergate/comment-page-1/#comment-72752 Mon, 20 Oct 2014 15:58:55 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2704#comment-72752 I don’t fully understand what gamergate is but have noticed the term popping up a lot recently. I have noticed previously that gamers can be quite defensive about their identity and have felt the pressure of expectation for what it means to be one. For me the term gamer is very generic and loose, simply referring to the fact that I like to play a lot of games in my spare time. There are many different types of gamer though and we don’t all play the same things. I too bristle when I see other gamers speaking about what games can and can’t be as if they are a representative for all of us. I’ve been playing games for as long as I can remember and so I believe my opinions to be no less valid (or more so) than anybody else. I for one think it’s great that more games can be made for more people and in turn could help the medium to gain more understanding and respect as a whole (that doesn’t mean all games have to be made this way though.) When I have a passion for something I like to share that with others rather than reserving it just for a select group. Besides, games and play are a very natural part of life that have been around for a long time – whether electronic or not -, so does any group really have the right to lay claim to them?

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By: anonymous https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2014/10/17/gamergate-shit-were-still-only-in-gamergate/comment-page-1/#comment-72751 Sun, 19 Oct 2014 09:24:37 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2704#comment-72751 Hi, I ran across your blog by accident from a posting you did on a grad student’s blog. I like this post a lot even if I disagree with some of it because I can tell you are speaking truthfully from personal experience and are honestly exploring it.

I think that there is a lot of rotten behavior in game culture and they are participants in what’s happening, but this event isn’t dying down I think is because there’s a subset of mad people (I am one of them) that have legitimate grievances and this is the only time we’ve seen a chance of it breaking through. I only nominally associate myself with gamergate exactly because I am not one of subliterate griefer types, so I suppose I am the older type you’re disappointed in. I am not actively trying to keep this thing going, but for the first time in years people are taking longstanding complaints seriously. I don’t want to be defined by the worst parts, they do not speak for me. I can’t stop someone from being a jerk at the same time I’m trying to talk about issues. I recognize this is a problem but I am not sure it’s solvable nowadays because of the way social media works. Anybody can join a hashtag and be a jerk, anybody can sign up for a free email account and mail a bomb threat.

There are other things that are keeping the fighting going but I don’t want to start a fight/get banned/whatever so I’m not going to go into that except to say that a few very influential game journalists are disliked for good reasons that have nothing to do with their political opinions or advocacy of, and every time things are dying down they whack the hornet’s nest again. Some of the women who have been victimized by all of this have been victimized again by a couple bad actors on the anti-gg side that keep dragging them back into it to make their points. I am not letting the people doing the actual abusing off the hook, but the debate would have moved beyond some of the women victimized except some people needed them to continue to be the focal point for their narratives to work and to avoid talking about other issues. It’s a disgusting tactic, equally as bad as just plain misogyny. I am sorry if I am being obtuse but I don’t want to victimize them more or continue to make anything about this issue about them.

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By: mch https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2014/10/17/gamergate-shit-were-still-only-in-gamergate/comment-page-1/#comment-72750 Sun, 19 Oct 2014 05:24:12 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2704#comment-72750 I write as someone (a now 64-year-old female) who has never had any interest in comics (many years ago — Archie was about as interested as I could get) or games as here understood. Not even Mario when my husband and two young children, one male and one female, were thoroughly absorbed. (Well, I did find the music and march of squares oddly mesmerizing, but I was never really interested in playing. I preferred crossword and other puzzles, worked out after I’d finished the dishes and the laundry — and grading papers and preparing classes — in the quiet of the house, long after everyone else had been in bed for hours.)

Somehow, none of this surprises me. That a marginal place can become a place of refuge, well, crosswords can provide that place, too. But marginal to what center? A refuge for what and whom, and from what and whom?

You observe what any analyst of childhood sexual abuse or bullying observes: the abused often become abusers, the bullied bullies. I am not sure what abuses crossword solvers (as crossword solvers) commit — there may be some, but the effects must be greatly refracted and diffused. As they probably are with most “gamers” as understood here. But I repeat, marginal to what center?

The unexamined center, once again.

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By: Greg Lastowka https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2014/10/17/gamergate-shit-were-still-only-in-gamergate/comment-page-1/#comment-72749 Sat, 18 Oct 2014 16:56:00 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=2704#comment-72749 #1 and #2 are what bother me the most about this. I’ve always had a sense that gaming and fantasy in all its forms (including related zones — e.g. comics) constituted a haven and a form of escape for those that needed it. I know about–and I’ve been bothered by the sewagey aspects of gaming–e.g. griefing, multiplayer trash talking, the Penny Arcade fiasco, and the uglier corners of 4chan. But this “movement” over the past few months has really shaken my confidence in the tribe. I’ve got to believe that the people on this hashtag are not representative — they are not the gamers that I’ve known. But it really is gut-wrenching to hear them claim ownership of the culture, and, like you, I wonder if I’ve been wrong about their marginality.

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