Comments on: An Analogy https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Sat, 13 Aug 2011 13:53:48 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Tom https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7825 Sat, 13 Aug 2011 13:53:48 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7825 @ Stephen Frug

You painted McClellan as “inept” which he most certainly was not. McClellan was a wizard of logistics who built the damn Army of the Potomac and instilled it with confidence after Bull Run. Clearly though, he was not an effective battlefield commander by any means. But someone who was truly “inept” at command could never have displayed the administrative prowess that McClellan did.

He is not an apt comparison to Obama either. McClellan’s primary failing was his supreme and often times ludicrous caution……(sending cables back to Washington putting the rebel army at 200,000 men, for instance). But he wasn’t actively working for the Confederate States.

Obama isn’t cautious, he is deceptive. He isn’t cowardly, he is enacting the agenda he has wanted all along. Obama isn’t playing for the tea party, but he isn’t playing for anyone making under $200,000 a year either…..You know, the people the democrats largely claim to represent?

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7742 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:37:15 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7742 But Buchanan, from what we can tell, didn’t see himself that way, and it didn’t seem to be his intent to be pro-South and pro-slavery, only to resolve the conflict with a negotiated, procedural solution. You’re basically taking the view at the time, agreed upon by most since, that Buchanan’s actions amounted to being pro-South and pro-slavery whatever his intention.

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By: BillWAF https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7741 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:31:00 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7741 This is a bad comparison. Buchanan was pro-South and pro-slavery. Some would argue that he committed treason during the run-up to the Civil War. I am not sure about that charge, but it is clear some in his administration did commit treason. Alex Cockburn and “Counterpunch” may be right that Obama is actually a conservative who liked the outcome of the debt ceiling deal, but he does not seem to be a member of the tea party.

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By: larssondj https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7740 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 17:51:20 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7740 You raise a useful observation; the country’s mood does seem a little like the late 1850s, maybe even 1860. But I think it’s more because of the point you make here about the “ideologically coherent social movement with clear political aspirations” than it is about any similarity between Buchanan and Obama.

Buchanan was the consummate insider. He had been trying for years to become president, and more than one Democratic president went out of his way to send Buchanan to another continent to remove him as a rival. Obama, in contrast, certainly campaigned as the opposite of an insider, accusing Hilary Clinton of being “Bush/Cheney Lite,” which may have been true, but certainly does seem true of the Obama Administration, at least in respect of Wall Street policy, war policy, and the power of the executive (I’m not even sure it’s “Lite).

I think the real similarity is between the Tea Party (or, more specifically, the people with power and money who seek the rise of the Tea Party and politicians like Paul Ryan) and the “Slave Power.

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By: andrew https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7731 Wed, 27 Jul 2011 03:23:13 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7731 Buchanan probably wasn’t the worst president ever, but his failure may have been the most consequential.

A contemporary analog of Lincoln would need a contemporary analog of Lincoln’s Republican Party, which was then still new, energetic, and guided by fairly coherent and strongly held beliefs as to how a free country should work. That their platform later crashed when faced with the realities of free soil, free labor, and free men in an industrializing, corporatizing nation willing to turn its back on African-Americans in the south shouldn’t overshadow the fact that as a set of guiding principles in the 1850s and 1860s it was far better than the alternative.

Without an analogous party or movement like that today, it doesn’t really matter what Lincoln’s analog would do. You’re probably better off hoping it’s more like 1850 than 1860, and that there’s a contemporary analog of a younger Lincoln waiting, working, preparing for the struggle ahead. Fortunately, in the world of analogies, that’s an easy switch to make.

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By: Stephen Frug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7730 Wed, 27 Jul 2011 03:02:03 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7730 Sadly plausible, to my mind. Save that I don’t see a Lincoln anywhere in the wings.

Yours is probably better, but the analogy I keep thinking of from roughly the same period is that Obama is to liberals like George McClellan was to the Union: on the right side, basically (he was in the military sense, but of course he was not actually a Republican or anti-slavery), but so cowardly and inept that he blew chance after chance to win and had to be replaced to get anything done. And, of course, McClellan ultimately betrayed his cause by running a campaign in 1864 that would have been tantamount to surrender (he pretended it wasn’t, but I think he mostly fooled himself); luckily he lost.

Oh, and just by the by, since you said 1855 more than once: I’m probably missing something, but you do remember that Buchanan was president from March, 1857 to March, 1861, right?

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By: rob loftis https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7729 Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:54:58 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7729 Lincoln avoided Buchanan’s dithering compromises by forcefully taking one side in the conflict (the right side) and then fighting the bloodiest war in US history to uphold it.

What would the contemporary analog of Lincoln do?

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By: Russell Arben Fox https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2011/07/26/an-analogy/comment-page-1/#comment-7728 Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:36:25 +0000 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=1667#comment-7728 All of the metaphors, bedtime stories, and analogies you’ve trotted out in recent days, Tim, I think this one is your best. It lends support to the kind of democratic despair I’m feeling right now. Rather horrible to contemplate that Obama may turn out to have been a Buchanan rather than a Lincoln, and of course Buchanan never had anything like the ACA to his credit. But Obamacare may be washed away in the ugly economic and constitutional retrenchment which default may plausibly invite, so that would leave him with little to balance out the negative picture. Pretty sad.

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