Comments on: The Laptop in the Classroom https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Wed, 13 May 2009 15:52:59 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Ira Socol https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6598 Wed, 13 May 2009 15:52:59 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6598 I’m so thrilled that this conversation is rolling along:

A few things –

Wendy, I know I’m touchy on this, but let me tell two stories. First, when I first received TTS and writing support – via a laptop, I had professors who said, “please sit in the back so you don’t distract people.” That was really cruel. Second, I once had a SpEd teacher say all her kids had been banned from the computer lab because one had tried to strangle another with the keyboard cord. At first I was about to suggest wireless keyboards, but then I realized that we wouldn’t ban other things – books, pens, etc. so why this? I’m quite certain the MBTA doesn’t want its Motormen reading books while operating trains either. You don’t ban books though.

Carl, If I could rename it I’d say “Attention-Discrimination Hyperactivity Difference” ADHD is “hypofiltering” while Autism might be “hyperfiltering” – it is a question of how we filter and prioritize incoming stimuli. I also tend to suggest a real evolutionary benefit to “hypofiltering,” better in the hunt, better in battle, better at knowing that that cloud is dangerous even while ‘focused’ on planting. Better at learning a wide range of things.

I can offer the Gramscian perspective. Most teachers are “traditionally attentioned” and have succeeded as such. They apply pressure to maintain the academic system of traditional focus because it maintains their position of power. Switching fully to what I would like would change the universe of “winners.” Wendy might lose while I might finally win. The trick is to construct an environment which expands the universe of winners. This requires real care, offering real choices (not “sit in the front row if you want to do this”). I’m not suggesting that its an easy path to negotiate.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6597 Wed, 13 May 2009 13:33:14 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6597 Wendy: the only thing I’m thinking is that you shouldn’t read much into students not taking you up on your offer (e.g., that this somehow proves that laptop users are up to no good, and fear discovery). Students don’t like to sit in the first row in any class no matter what technologies they’re using and almost all of them will avoid a situation where they appear to be under special scrutiny or where they know the professor doesn’t care for some practice that they’d otherwise employ.

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By: Carl https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6596 Wed, 13 May 2009 05:07:40 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6596 It’s great for me to see takingitoutside’s perspective and Ira’s response. Neat to think along with Tim and Wendy too.

I try to think about classes as total learning environments and to recruit the students to become more aware of education as a complex interactive process. As part of that, in addition to ‘normal’ coursework I ask students to keep a field journal of their observations, experiences and reflections of the class. (I don’t read them until I’ve graded all their other work.) Often despite lots of prompting the journals are pretty thin and stereotyped: students seize on a narrow range of conventional stimuli and loop monotonously on them. I don’t want to romanticize what’s obviously a wrenching sensory/cognitive overload, but it’s clear that both takingitoutside and Ira experience the classroom with much more phenomenological depth. You guys’ journals would break the curve. Looking at Ira’s novel excerpt it seems strange to call the syndrome ‘attention deficit’, since what he describes looks more like the product of attention surplus.

In a way the student who sees all the things Ira and takingitoutside see is potentially my ideal student. I feel now like I want to do even more to negotiate a productive engagement with those kids I always love who are all over the place, and that laptops are just one possible tool to accomplish that. In what ways can a kind of multi-focal distraction be a real asset to a class? Ira, how is it even possible to begin that dialogue if students with these abilities and challenges seal themselves behind a shield of prickly stigma management?

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By: Wendy https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6595 Wed, 13 May 2009 01:12:53 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6595 Tim, I don’t want to watch them. I want their fellow students to watch them. I could then tell from the body language if something inappropriate was being watched/looked at. 🙂 I literally can’t monitor individual students while I’m teaching, and I don’t know how anyone can.

Ira, re the MBTA thing, I was just challenging an overgeneralization, not making an argument. Calm down. 🙂

Re making technology sound dangerous: I can see why you’d think that, but in actuality, I use/talk about technology in the classroom quite a bit. I just know my students and the context of my classroom. I didn’t say my solution this term was what everyone should do; I simply stated that I did it, thinking it might be useful to someone else as an idea to consider implementing based on the context of his or her individual classroom.

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By: Ira Socol https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6594 Wed, 13 May 2009 00:38:03 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6594 Wendy, reading takingitoutside, you’d probably prefer to reverse that, or to consider how to truly integrate it. You sound like you’ve made the use of technology sound dangerous, which is an unfortunate place to start.

And, sorry, the MBTA situation is a nonsensical argument. “Astronauts have to wear spacesuits” does not equal “students must wear spacesuits.” Your classroom, theoretically, is a place of information exchange, not a transit system.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6593 Wed, 13 May 2009 00:35:10 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6593 I don’t think I would if I were a student made that offer. Let me put it this way: if a professor said, “You can take notes during my lecture but I need to be able to look at your notes while you’re writing them”, I’d choose the “no notes” option. It sounds like entrapment, a no-win deal. I think if you’re going to scrutinize what students do in your class, you have to be an equal-opportunity scrutinzer. If you operate on a basis of trust, then I think you can fairly say, “I expect that no one will do anything but take notes and look at pertinent information on their laptops” and then deal with obvious breaches of that arrangement if they should become obvious to you. But telling laptop users that they have to sit in the penalty box where you can see them clearly is the worst of all worlds: a total ban makes more sense than that.

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By: Wendy https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6591 Tue, 12 May 2009 23:56:02 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6591 Alicia wrote: “Mobile devices aren???? going to be banned in the workplace, nor should they be. ”

Well, it depends on what you mean by “workplace.” The MBTA (in Boston) is planning to ban T operators from having their cellphones with them on the job (and for good reason).

I have been anti-laptop for the past few years, but I’ve been considering moderating my views because I recognize the value of having such easy access to information at our fingertips. I decided on a policy this term of allowing laptops in class on the condition that the user sit in the front row. No one took me up on it.

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By: Ira Socol https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6589 Tue, 12 May 2009 15:30:41 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6589 Interesting, because I always suggest that if you really want to “re-form” education, you begin with the architecture, the calendar, the clock. (Then, of course, the curriculum, which divides, rather than bridges.) The structure of the learning space is a huge challenge for many, instructors and students. At the most basic it inhibits comfort, and the mind of the uncomfortable student is devoting a stunning amount of cognitive energy to being uncomfortable, and not much is left for actual education.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6588 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:40:01 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6588 This is useful. I’m honestly concerned with the possibility that laptop users are doing things that are visual or otherwise seriously distracting not just for learning-disabled students but for almost anyone in view. The same way, for example, that students carrying on a whispered conversation are distracting for both the professor and the students. The student who stopped the class for trivia is a different kind of problem, the kind of problem that any teacher faces from time to time (the person who speaks a lot but actually interferes with any sense of progression in the discussion). In any event, if I started to feel that I was looking out a room full of people viewing Hulu during class, I’d feel much more predisposed to a laptop ban.

Classroom architecture could indeed solve some of these questions. If everyone’s around a square or circular table, it’s a bit harder to see more than the laptop next to you, for example, whereas in a large lecture hall, you may have 5-10 laptops in view.

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By: Ira Socol https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2009/05/06/the-laptop-in-the-classroom/comment-page-1/#comment-6587 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:20:08 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=825#comment-6587 Takingitoutside,

I just wanted to add thoughts as another “ADHDer.”

Almost everything other students do in the classroom distracts me, and always has.

If Tim will indulge, let me quote two paragraphs from my novel:

“The problem is this. Say that you are in a classroom. In that classroom, hundreds of things are happening every minute. People are talking, people are moving, papers are rustling and pages are turning, the air from the ventilator is making the flag move, chairs are squeaking, there may be fish in an aquarium that are swimming while their air pump bubbles or the classroom hamster running on an exercise wheel in its cage, someone will sneeze or cough or drop their pencil and reach down and pick it up or pick lint off their sweater or pass a note to the person next to them ? there might be things hanging from the ceiling that are slowly turning, there is dust floating in the sunlight coming through the windows, and of course there are fluorescent lights that are actually, this is true, blinking on and off sixty times every second. Plus, there are probably hundreds of words and dozens of pictures on the walls, each intending to grab your attention, there are patterns in the floor and on the ceiling tiles, there is the grain of the wood on your desktop sometimes marked with scratches and writing that other students have put there, there are books all over the place with words on them and the hardware that holds your notebook together. Then, outside the window and in the hall outside the door are millions of other things ? cars and birds and planes and kids at recess and clouds going by, or even more amazing ? rain, or a person walking past the classroom door, or just the way that power lines and phone wires hang between each pole. And finally there is everything about you ? from the feel of each piece of clothing against your skin to whether you are hot or hungry or thirsty to the tag at the back of your shirt that is scratching your neck to listening to the funny little noise of the blood running through your ears or trying to find a pattern in the weave of the fabric of your jeans and what could be more incredible than the shapes on the bottom of your sneakers and how dirt sticks into them.

“All of these things are going on. One of those things might be the teacher talking or one might be the test you are supposed to be taking. But in each of those cases that is still just one thing and there are, obviously, so many things. And the point is that even if I??m supposed to know which of those things I should be paying the most attention to, even if I??ve been told ??five hundred times for God??s sake,?? it still doesn??t work. It??s still like having a dozen people standing around me all yelling different things at once. Later people told me that because I paid attention to so much stuff it made me a good cop; maybe so, but it does not make you the favorite of any teacher.”

I guess I bring this up because the issue you describe is a somewhat different one, and yet the same, as with all other “disabilities” we are at an intersection between who you are (or I am) and the environment in which a task must take place. So, undoubtedly you know all the standard answers – sit in the front row, sit in the back corner, and sometimes those work and sometimes not. So, perhaps without specific disclosure, based in “preference only,” classrooms might have sections – multitaskers and singletaskers, for example. Amtrak has quiet cars, club cars, regular cars. Its the same kind, different needs being met within the same system.

I’m interested because your experience is the opposite of mine. In undergrad classes I have to ask students to bring laptops. In my grad courses the laptop in every hand in essential to the conversation, as we all look things up, share documents, research, books to read, questions. In my grad courses we also, of course, have few readings actually available in print form – students must choose to print documents out if they want paper versions. While undergrads (not in things I teach, but) are still stuck with expensive, instantly antiquated textbooks.

But a large part of what you describe I would call “instructional failure.” If everyone brought a pen and paper to class and the instructor had nothing for students to do with that, “bad” things would happen. Pens would be twirled, paper airplanes folded, notes passed, pictures drawn. Instructors which do not make constant use of the information technologies in the room – “could you look that up?” “could you share that?” “we’ll use Google Docs to share thoughts” “look it up, see if what I just said is true” – are creating the situation you describe. The students are simply reacting to their environment.

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