Comments on: Bruce Wayne Is the Black Glove https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/12/05/bruce-wayne-is-the-black-glove/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:10:39 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: G. Weaire https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/12/05/bruce-wayne-is-the-black-glove/comment-page-1/#comment-6063 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:10:39 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=678#comment-6063 If I’m remembering correctly (which I may very well not be) Nolan mentioned that this was why he dropped the Zorro element from the film. In fact, there are no references to popular culture at all in the films – it’s a ballerina, not a Paris Hilton type, that Bruce takes to dinner.

For Batman to have no referents whatsoever (which is what Nolan seems to want), one has to imagine a US with no history of masked vigilantism at all, no Ku Klux Klan or anything like that, which would be used as points of comparison in the absence of fictional masked heroes.

But I think there’s something to it. It may be the only way to do “protagonist chooses to be a superhero” and still produce an effective story. The conventional superhero film (Spider-Man, Iron Man) turns on the decision to use the hero’s abilities in socially beneficial ways, and takes it for granted that the way to do that is to become a superhero.

But if you want to make the film about the decision to be a superhero as such, then you would otherwise need to confront the basic silliness that modelling oneself on fictional superheroes would entail in our world. Hiro in Heroes can only be played for laughs.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/12/05/bruce-wayne-is-the-black-glove/comment-page-1/#comment-6059 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 01:35:33 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=678#comment-6059 That’s an interesting comment by Nolan, given that the other iconic thing that’s happen to Batman’s origin from Frank Miller on is the detail that Bruce Wayne had just seen the film Zorro when his parents were gunned down. Even without the glutting of his world’s history with superheroes, that made his invention of Batman have a pedigree of some kind. But Nolan’s Batman absolutely doesn’t seem to live in a world that has had any kind of pulp literature at all, no hint or trace of it.

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By: G. Weaire https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/12/05/bruce-wayne-is-the-black-glove/comment-page-1/#comment-6057 Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:33:39 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=678#comment-6057 I also have not read the comic in question. But I did watch The Dark Knight on DVD last night. And I do enjoy the geekier posts, too.

So here goes: the Batman you talk about, where Batman is the real person and Bruce Wayne the mask, has become the dominant way in which the character is seen by the broad popular audience: it’s implicitly the view of Burton’s Batman films and explicitly the view of the Nolan ones.* (The Schumacher films, of course, were not troubled by niceties like identity.) It’s a pregnant theme which appears to touch a contemporary cultural nerve.

That might make it difficult to revert to the older model of a well-adjusted Bruce Wayne who poses as Batman (even if that would be richer within the comics themselves – because there dressing up as a bat and beating criminals up is completely normal behavior*).

Similarly, part of why Superman Returns didn’t work was that an audience whose perception of Lex Luthor was formed by Lois and Clark and Smallville wasn’t receptive to the 70’s comedy scientist-criminal.

*Nolan recently commented somewhere that it was important for his take on Batman that there were no other superheroes in this world, not even in fiction.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/12/05/bruce-wayne-is-the-black-glove/comment-page-1/#comment-6053 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:38:50 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=678#comment-6053 Thanks for that! I appreciate it.

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By: Carl https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/12/05/bruce-wayne-is-the-black-glove/comment-page-1/#comment-6052 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:20:15 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=678#comment-6052 OK, might as well say this thought. I love your blog because no matter what you talk about it turns out to be interesting. I’ve not been following the world of Batman nor do I much care, but I like to learn new things and I really like to see a nice analysis being turned clearly and elegantly. Plus, you stimulate a diverse and vibrant commentariat, even or especially at our most irritating. For those of us a little off the beaten track and not well-funded for conventional professional socialization, this is one good way to stay tuned in and intellectually alive. So thanks for this post and all the other ones, and good luck with the bleaks.

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