Comments on: On Its Stomach https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:12:51 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: peter55 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-2/#comment-6033 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:12:51 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6033 “Sir Khama???? education is actually irrelevant: many African oligarchs boast a Western education. Sadly, most of that education has been overcome by the lure of easy kleptocracy, and Khama???? own probity is the sad exception. Maybe it was because his education came from Sandhurst rather than a socialist-style indoctrination center like, oh, Cambridge or, for that matter, Harvard or Swarthmore.”

Sir Seretse Khama was educated (as an optometrist) in a specialist college of further education in the UK, not at a military college such Sandhurst, and not at a university.

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By: Aljabik https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-2/#comment-6027 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:14:56 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6027 KimDuToit – I refer to Ian Khama, the current president who is doing quite a good job of running his client state. Sir Seretse unfortunately died a long time ago.

It is a bit of a straw man argument really. Botswana does well because it has a tiny population drawn mainly from one tribe and some great natural resources. Debswana run the country, moldbug would surely approve? This is a working example of his government as business, in Africa no less.

It is not an example for the rest of Africa, unless we are willing to break up the ridiculous post colonial states into business sized units.

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By: jpool https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6023 Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:45:06 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6023 Anjou, not to encourage engagement with those who have (deliberately) misread the point of the post, but…
I have no idea where kimdutoit got their figure for murder rate for the eastern DRC, but mortality rates can be found here. The IRC reported that, in 2007, violent death was rare (in fact the per anum rate is much lower what kimdutoit listed, so I don’t know what sort of timescale they are working with), at least compared to the situation when they conducted their previous mortality survey in 2004 (in 2007, .6% of over all mortality, down from 1.5% in 2004), but overall mortality rates had not significantly declined (in fact they’d gone up in the western DRC and thus for the country as a whole). While there are still dramatic attacks on civilians, disease, displacement and famine are the more deadly results of warlordism.

As for the murder rate for among SAf white farmers, the only references for the 313 number (which I can only imagine to be cumulative rather than per anum) I can find are from the farmers themselves and their on-line advocates. Specialists probably know more of this dynamic than I do, but here’s the wikipedia page on attacks against white farmers and the multiple representations of them.

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By: Anjou https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6018 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:31:24 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6018 You may have missed my last comment… anyone care to help?

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By: kimdutoit https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6017 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:17:15 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6017 Sorry about the open italics.

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By: kimdutoit https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6016 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:16:52 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6016 “Botswana is the one glaring exception to this human tragedy, the destruction of so many lives and the blighting of generations.”

Well, yes, unless one counts the AIDS epidemic, which is rendering (the already sparsely-populated) Botswana almost desolate.

And Sir Seretsa Khama did not have a White mother, but a White wife.

Sir Khama’s education is actually irrelevant: many African oligarchs boast a Western education. Sadly, most of that education has been overcome by the lure of easy kleptocracy, and Khama’s own probity is the sad exception. Maybe it was because his education came from Sandhurst rather than a socialist-style indoctrination center like, oh, Cambridge or, for that matter, Harvard or Swarthmore.

But to answer your question more succinctly: Botswana escaped the usual tribal slaughter of Africa because it’s a.) largely populated by a single tribe (the Tswana) and b.) even where other tribes are in evidence, they’re so far removed geographically from the Tswanas that it’s possible for most Tswanas to grow up without ever seeing another tribe’s members.

Diamonds, actually, have been Botswana’s salvation. Without the bling, Botswana’s gross domestic product, like the rest of sub-Saharan Africa, would have been death by starvation, and its principal export, refugees. (cf. Mozambique, Tanzania, Chad, Somalia, etc etc etc.)

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By: moldbug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6014 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:31:53 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6014 Aljabik,

I realize that, as a racist, I should favor the English-mother interpretation.

But what’s really ironic is that Botswana, the “democratic” “success story” of Africa, has pretty much the same relationship with De Beers that Guatemala once had with United Fruit. Plus a dose of Verwoerd-style traditional leadership camouflaged as democratic party. (Botswana is a one-tribe state as well as a one-party state – and the Khamas are its traditional chiefs.)

Naturally, all this proves that “independence” in Africa can work. Hypocrisy, thy name is academia.

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By: jpool https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6011 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:44:25 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6011 “West Africans are best understood as Swedes with black skins”

Does this guy mean Marcus Samuelsson? He’s originally from Eithiopia; East African, not West.

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By: Aljabik https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6010 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:35:38 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6010 The longer the period of rule by “heroes of the revolution”, the worse the state of the country. Its an unpopular view outside of Africa, but very common among people of all skin tones in Southern Africa.

I travelled extensively throughout the 90’s through Zimbabwe, Zambia, South Africa and Botswana, and saw all this first hand many many times.

It took KK 25 years to destroy Zambia, Uncle Bob 25 years to destroy Zimbabwe, how long do we give South Africa under the ANC?

Botswana is the one glaring exception to this human tragedy, the destruction of so many lives and the blighting of generations. Of course it would have nothing to do with the ruling class rejecting socialist progressive policies but instead governing with the mandate of the royal family and engaging in real improvements in the infrastructure, health and education services.

Maybe President Khama’s English mother has been a good influence? Or perhaps his education by the British military rather than American socialists? Maybe it is the total domination of the country by one tribe? Maybe its the diamonds?

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By: Snake Plissken https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/11/07/on-its-stomach/comment-page-1/#comment-6007 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 02:56:12 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=671#comment-6007 Why wouldn’t the suffering continue as it has since the beginning of time? And as for outside intervention, if we in the US, with all the billions we waste on welfare, cannot stamp out poverty and violence, why could ANYONE hope to do the same in Africa?

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