Comments on: Rules of the Game https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:42:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: barry https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4973 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:42:00 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4973 s perceived legitimacy among his opponents. People opposed Reagan or Bush Senior; with W., from the first moment, there was enormous ill-will that wasn’t just focused on his policies but also on whether or not he had a right to be President at all. " His opponents? This wouldn't include the Democratic leadership in Congress; it wouldn't include such alleged bastions of liberality such as the NYT. The people who are pissed were the rank-and-file; the elites told them to shut up, and got eagerly down to doing business. The end lesson of the Bush administration is just how far a GOP president can push it, with no fear of serious consequences.]]> Timothy Burke Says:

February 6th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
“I actually think it did have an effect on Bush’s perceived legitimacy among his opponents. People opposed Reagan or Bush Senior; with W., from the first moment, there was enormous ill-will that wasn’t just focused on his policies but also on whether or not he had a right to be President at all. ”

His opponents? This wouldn’t include the Democratic leadership in Congress; it wouldn’t include such alleged bastions of liberality such as the NYT.

The people who are pissed were the rank-and-file; the elites told them to shut up, and got eagerly down to doing business.

The end lesson of the Bush administration is just how far a GOP president can push it, with no fear of serious consequences.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4972 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:02:02 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4972 True enough, but like I said, one thing I’m voting for is a commitment to being committed to process and the rule of law. That’s the problem with Bush-style unilateralism, which holds that one commits to a process only as long as it produces a result that one wanted in the first place, otherwise, you abrogate any previous agreements. So this is a test for me of a very very crucial commitment to that vision of governance.

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By: laurel https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4968 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:03:28 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4968 I hope you’re working for the Obama (or Huckabee?) campaign, then.

I’m very unwilling to sit out elections based on the candidates’ engagement in pretty normal political stupidity. Mostly this is because I spend a lot of time dealing with the practical effects of government policy (school funding and quality, youth incarceration, abortion/birth control/childcare access for teenagers, what happens when kids don’t have dental care, public transit). The Clinton-McCain choice is absolutely meaningful at that level, and not worth sitting out over one unfair maneuver in a generally unfair process. It’s not like the Democratic nomination process is a model of voter enfrachisement and representation aside from this one issue.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4959 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:27:19 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4959 I love the idea of a DNC meeting that deliberately set out to dilute Clinton’s strength in Florida, hwc. That’s hilarious. Oh, yes, Clinton is surely the insurgent candidate fighting against the DNC. The meetings you’re talking about took place at a point where the Clinton campaign surely thought that it would be all over by Florida, anyway, in their favor. Plus the absurdity of comparing this to Sunni disenfranchisement–I mean, come on, why not throw in a reference to the Nazis while you’re at it.

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By: joe o https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4958 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:36:09 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4958 Things would be a lot better if Gore would have managed to get himself made president after the 2000 election. Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis better.

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By: hwc https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4954 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:44:24 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4954 It was the DNC that changed the rules midstream. The original rule was a state could lose up to half its delegates if they moved early.

When the DNC rules committee met (I watched it on C-SPAN) to consider Florida, the expectation was that the DNC would impose the maximum sanction (half the delegates). Instead, the DNC shocked Florida by throwing out the DNC’s rulebook and inventing a new rule (loss of all delegates). This action took place well after the polls made it clear Clinton would dominate in Florida. The DNC rules committee was stacked with Obama and Edwards supporters and the most vocal ringleader was Obama supporter Donna Brazile.

That DNC rules meeting was a kangaroo court, stacked and loaded to dilute Clinton’s strength in Florida. So don’t talk about “fairness”.

As a practical matter, the Democratic Party has to be brain-dead to disenfranchise one of the most critical large swing states. Florida has the fourth largest number of electoral college votes. It is this kind of political tone-deafness that explains why the Democratic Party has only mananged one President in the last 28 years.

Prof. Burke and I will offset our votes. I view the disenfranchisement of Florida and Michigan in the same vein as the controlling Shia disenfranchising the Sunni in Iraq. I will absolutely not support a Democratic Party that turns its back on democracy.

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By: jim https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4951 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:38:32 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4951 The problem lies at the feet of the DNC. The decision to disenfranchise the two states for interfering with the right of Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina to go first was, to say the least, arrogant. The DNC now seems to regret it. Even those who would prefer the results of the Florida and Michigan primaries not stand advocate a “do-over”. There is reportedly a good deal of pressure on the two states to hold another primary or caucus. The two states are resisting. Their view is they held an election. In Florida’s case, at least, all the candidates were on the ballot and there was a large turnout — much larger than 2000 or 2004. They see no reason to overturn it.

It’s worth pointing out that the Republicans managed this situation better. They don’t have a small army of superdelegates either.

As it happens, I have no preference between Obama and Clinton. On Tuesday I intend to vote for Edwards. Just because he’s suspended his campaign doesn’t mean I don’t still consider him the best choice. But having no preference leaves me in the situation where I feel like the designated driver at a New Year’s Eve party, astonished at the vehemence surrounding me.

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By: JonathanGray https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4942 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:15:34 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4942 Might I recommend you write to the DNC and voice this displeasure? I did so myself after reading your post and a news article about it. If they hear from enough people that this could decide votes for them, surely this would make them consider very carefully. It’s disgraceful that they’re even thinking of it. Heck, who knows: if everyone in Michigan and Florida turned out to vote in a legit primary, maybe she’d even have another 100-300 delegates. Maybe 100-300 less. But to say, “by the way, that meaningless vote that many of you were told you could stay away from? haha. joke’s on you. it counted” sounds like something a corrupt grade 4 teacher would do to impose a favorited student into class president, not something a national democratic party should be entertaining.

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By: hestal https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4940 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:07:23 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4940 “We need someone who is going to do things the right way, who has a respect for process, procedure, the rule of law, for consultative government. Who can put personal and party ambition aside when principle demands.”

So I take it you think that the two-party system is capable of producing this person so you can vote him into office.

Do you think that over time it will happen 40% of the time? How often has the present system produced this person since 1800? Since 1900? Since 1952?

I think that the system is decaying. Things will not get better. The R’s have held the WH in 28 of the last 40 years, counting this one. Our nation has taken 28 steps backward and only 12 steps forward, if that many. Since 1980 the backward steps have been really big ones, don’t you think?

In 2006 Ornstein and Mann wrote “Broken Branch.” In 2007 Dean wrote “Broken Government.” They seem to think that things are pretty bad. So who is to blame? The People or the System?

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By: ikl https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/02/06/rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-4933 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:04:22 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=517#comment-4933 The Clinton folks are posturing about Florida and Michigan because, frankly, they need something to talk about other than losing in pledged delegates (and now having money problems). I suspect that party insiders wouldn’t let them steal the election because it would cause a really damaging revolt among lots of core Democrats who wouldn’t show up to vote in November. And based on the rules as I understand them, it is unlikely that the Clinton folks could seat the delegates without a fairly convincing win in the remaining primaries or Howard Dean’s approval (if the first happens, no one will care and I don’t think that Dean is going to do their dirty work for them if they don’t have a pledged delegate lead).

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