Comments on: Now You Know, and Knowing Is Half the Battle https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:28:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4916 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:28:04 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4916 “Two Girls” actually strikes me as pinning down what the concern is really about. I think there’s something historically intensely precise about media panics, that it’s something that stretches from radio forward, and is tied very closely to changes in the household, the family and childhood in the 20th Century. This is not to say that there wasn’t a vaguely similar reaction to printed books in the 17th Century, etc., but this is way more focused. Because if you go back to the 18th Century, I think you find not only that European children, especially of the elites, were way more aware of scatalogical and sexual references, you find even literary work that’s pretty…vivid…Rabelais most notably. I’m not saying “Two Girls” is something I’d welcome showing up in my kid’s email, but that the cultural backdrop against which we regard that as an intrusive new presence is maybe shorter than we commonly think.

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By: Stuart Buck https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4915 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:51:59 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4915 Fair point.

Would you agree that there’s anything different between parents who only have to worry about their son looking at Cheryl Tiegs, vs. parents who have to worry that their kids will find (or be emailed) stuff like this?

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4914 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:09:12 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4914 When you’re describing your own experience, I think the caveat “as far as I can tell” and “or so it seems to me” always comes along for the ride: we can’t run experimental studies of our own lives.

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By: Stuart Buck https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4913 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:17:36 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4913 Superfluous parenthesis there.

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By: Stuart Buck https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4912 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:16:45 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4912 I’ll grant most of your adjectives, but I can’t help doubting “unaffected.” Are you sure? How you subjectively feel about any aesthetic experience surely has to be shaped by the cumulative weight all of your previous aesthetic experiences, doesn’t it? Maybe you are desensitized to certain things; on the other hand, maybe your sensitivity is heightened when you see a surprising twist on a familiar trope. So . . . “unaffected”? Can you ever really be sure that the aesthetic experience you have today would have been the same had you not had various other experiences in the past)?

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4910 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:39:46 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4910 There Will Be Blood doesn’t really have all that much violence in it, in terms of the length of the film. But the three or four violent events were to be gripping, shocking, emotionally powerful, unaffected by the numerous acts of violence I’ve seen on-screen.

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By: Stuart Buck https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4909 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:46:31 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4909 I see your point, but I am congenitally unable to believe it. My own experience has been quite the opposite. I had a sheltered upbringing, and until I was about 18, I had never seen anything more violent than Little House on the Prairie or The Waltons or Anne of Green Gables. Then I saw the movie Point Break — and I remember to this day being pinned to my seat in horror at the violence in that movie (which really isn’t that violent — a few people get shot, I think). Today, I’ve seen many scores of violent movies, and violence has very little effect on me (even when it is orders of magnitude greater than what was in Point Break). But the thing is, I don’t ever notice within myself the phenomenon that you’re describing — right now, there simply is no film wherein violence, however grippingly depicted, ever affects me the same way that Point Break did, or that even affects me at a level deeper than “Hmm, that’s too bad.” I’ve seen so much violence in movies by now that absolutely none of it ever pins me to my seat any more. In any event, I just can’t help thinking that there’s no such thing as a person who has watched tons of hard-core [pron or violence] but who nonetheless has the same ability to feel the full emotional impact of a “single modest” scene.

To be sure, maybe what I’ve experienced is not just desensitization to violence, but desensitization to movies more generally — that is, I’ve seen so many more movies that it’s now a more detached experience in which one doesn’t feel quite so swept away by the story (“This is just a movie, after all”), but instead starts analyzing the camera technique or the orchestral score, etc.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4899 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:41:40 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4899 That’s the point: it’s Rambo IV. I guarantee you that in the right kind of movie, a single gunshot wound will still be as devastating a thing to represent in a film as it ever was. I simply think the entire concept of “desensitization” is the problem here–the proposition that repeated witnessing of certain visual representations changes something about how we see that act in the wider world of our experience. What it changes is how we relate to a given text. Let a 16-year old watch some hard-core porn, and I guarantee you that a single modest sex scene can still be emotionally gripping and moving to him or her–and I guarantee you that his or her sexual experience will be something again altogether.

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By: Stuart Buck https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4895 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:28:00 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4895 Well, I’m not sure I buy that it’s just a scale distinction. There’s all kinds of material online right now that wasn’t available in any format 50 years ago; or that, at most, would have been available only in the a few seedy and sordid locations (and certainly not to children). But now it’s in everyone’s home, just a click away. If you’re worried about your kid’s innocence, it’s not very satisfactory to think that we’re raising a generation of kids who are so jaded that they view that kind of stuff with the same “subjectivity or experience” as kids used to feel when they saw Cheryl Tiegs. Same for violence: Is it comforting that kids today might view the rampant bodycount in Rambo IV with less emotion than a 1950s kid would have felt about seeing a single gunshot wound?

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2008/01/24/now-you-know-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-4894 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:53:11 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=507#comment-4894 Fair enough, but then the question is a question of scale and type, not a question of a novel social phenomenon, which is how most media panics present their case, that something is happening which has never happened before.

It’s not even clear whether the intensity and ubiquity of extreme porn online creates a different kind of subjectivity or experience for the adolescent viewer, necessarily. There’s the old kid-in-a-candy-store issue here, namely, something which becomes ubiquitious becomes banal, and in becoming banal, may have less psychological and determinative power than otherwise. Saying “f***” when I was a kid was a huge, huge deal, and if you said it, you felt an enormous rush of transgressive power, a sense that something of consequence has just happened. Saying that something “sucked” when my mother was young inevitably meant that you were saying that it “sucked c***”–she can’t unhear the referent in it. Now saying that something sucks doesn’t carry that meaning, and I’m not even sure that f*** is that big a deal. (I’m asterixing the letters out of concern for the filters you mention, not because I’m sensitive to the word myself.) So you could say that Cheryl Tiegs’ visible nipples were vastly more pornographic in one way to the 13-year olds at my school than a parade of porn bodies might be now. It’s at least an issue to think about, and the kind of question that media panics typically elide.

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