Comments on: Lead Us Not Into Temptation https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:34:46 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Doug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4221 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:34:46 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4221 Well dang.

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By: Chris Clarke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4220 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:09:12 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4220 t know how much teachers push the ideas of forced labor and conversion and class differences though, </blockquote> My wife Becky does in her 4th grade class. As evidenced by this student comment about a film that failed to list the two Native Californians killed and eaten by members of the Donner Party as casualties of that episode: "It's like... it's like they <em>didn't even matter!</em>" She teaches in Berkeley, so make of that what you will. Also, so as to make Tim feel better about his pedantry, I'll note that the "Ring Around The Rosie refers to the Great Plague" notion is <a href="http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp" rel="nofollow">not particularlly supported by fact.</a> (I was surprised to learn that, myself.) ]]>

Well out here in California, kids all have to build models of the missions in 4th grade. I don’t know how much teachers push the ideas of forced labor and conversion and class differences though,

My wife Becky does in her 4th grade class. As evidenced by this student comment about a film that failed to list the two Native Californians killed and eaten by members of the Donner Party as casualties of that episode:

“It’s like… it’s like they didn’t even matter!

She teaches in Berkeley, so make of that what you will.

Also, so as to make Tim feel better about his pedantry, I’ll note that the “Ring Around The Rosie refers to the Great Plague” notion is not particularlly supported by fact. (I was surprised to learn that, myself.)

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By: Rebel Girl https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4219 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:22:42 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4219 Inspired to register also just to say that you’ve put me in the mood for our upcoming Back-to-School night, though our tyke is just in kindergarten…still, this morning, as I type, he is attending the school’s Patriot’s Day assembly…

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By: Steve Dallas https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4218 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 03:51:50 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4218 It’s a perpetual temptation for me… at least I’d rather resist this temptation than the one to correct my daughter’s principal when she typed “too” instead of “two” in an email. I mostly reserve my ire not for the content (which I’ve had no serious problems with so far), but for “special projects” that couldn’t possibly be completed without significant parental over-involvement.

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By: abstractart https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4216 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:44:31 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4216 I remember a dumb online quiz that illustrated this problem really obviously — someone, probably loosely inspired by a history book talking about the distribution of power in medieval times, made a “Who Would You Be In Medieval Times?” survey, which loosely pegged you by personality type into King/Queen, Lord/Lady, Priest/Nun, or Scholar.

Which, as I pointed out in an e-mail, is really like saying “Who Would You Be In 20th-Century America?” and making the choices The President, a Senator, a CEO or a Professor.

Unless the analogy you’re drawing is with, I dunno, some specific instance of Cold War politicking rather than actual 20th-century America, it’s pointless, and actually kind of disturbing. It’s bad enough that we spend so much of our lives right now pretending the lower classes in our society don’t exist — doing it for other time periods just underscores it.

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By: Doug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4215 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:37:59 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4215 Of course if kids still play “ring around a rosies…” they’re re-enacting the plague without even realizing it.

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By: PreachyPreach https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4214 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 21:16:36 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4214 One of the few times that I can recall my primary school ever actually teaching me something (as opposed to acting as a kind of glorified day care centre for the children of middle-class IT managers) was the day they got us to reenact the Industrial Revolution and the flight of the peasantry to the cities. By establishing a fairly simple model, where all the pupils had an independent and autonomous role (as peasants/workers, farmers, merchants, factory owners), there was a steady flight from the countryside to the city. Looking back with an adult eye, there were some fairly dodgy assumptions made, and the political implications were laden on a bit heavy-handedly, but it certainly really illuminated the whole process for me.

(Of course, the cynical will not be surprised to learn that in this experiment in market simulation, fraud and corruption was rampant. I recall that the merchants (like me) who were obviously supposed to prosper, rapidly lost out to some of the more quick-thinking and talking peasants.)

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By: Zenia https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4213 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:15:00 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4213 Last summer, I was the Head Counselor for a girls camp (ages 6-13) for three weeks. I chose the medieval theme. I stipulated that all the groups of girls had to pick names for their groups that represented something that women were able to do in the Middle Ages. After some research, we ended up with five groups – jesters, goldsmiths, apothecaries, nurses, and beggars.

We also had a “leper” stumble into camp one day. She told them about her condition and mentioned that she had lost some body parts in the woods. This turned into a treasure hunt to find the body parts (googly eyes, yarn “hair”, sequin “fingernails”, etc.). Once the teams of girls found all the body parts, they had to draw a body on a large sheet of construction paper and glue all the parts onto the right spots in their drawings. The girls LOVED the game. Later on, all the girls dressed up as lepers and we put on a “haunted house” for the rest of the campers.

So I think that there are definitely ways that younger kids can learn more historically accurate views of life in the Middle Ages. As long as you keep it in fun and don’t get too gruesome/bloody. It’s not any worse than Hansel and Gretel shoving a witch in the oven or Simba’s father dying!

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By: Sisyphus https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4212 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:32:22 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4212 Well out here in California, kids all have to build models of the missions in 4th grade. I don’t know how much teachers push the ideas of forced labor and conversion and class differences though, and I know from my niece’s experience that the kids can get so anxious about having the “best” mission and the logistics of constructing them that they don’t pay a whit of attention to anything they should be learning _content_-wise.

Still I would think that doing something on medieval agriculture or crafts and barter would work for helping them think about the peasantry, and could be slanted in a more positive way to think about cooperation and sharing, if people were scared off by presenting the blood-and-destruction parts of the middle ages.

Oh, and to tie my two comment sections together, the guy who wrote _The Island of the Blue Dolphins_ (a young adult novel about the mission Indians and coming of the colonists) also wrote a book (I forget the title) about St Francis of Assisi and the children’s crusade. I’m actually really fuzzy on the plot, and I think it was focused on aristocrats, but it was more dark and realistic.

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By: k8 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/07/lead-us-not-into-temptation/comment-page-1/#comment-4211 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:22:12 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=428#comment-4211 I probably would have enjoyed playing plague, but then I come from a family of morticians and have something of a morbid streak.

The role-playing can be educational in unexpected ways. After my niece told me about how her class played “pilgrims” at school (grade 3), I asked her what she learned. She told me that the girls had to do all of the work while the boys got to play. It seems the girls had to role-play cleaning, making soap, cooking, etc., while the boys role-played learning to hunt and fish. Needless to say, my niece was more than a little disgruntled. Of course, as I started to smirk my now ex-brother-in-law the anti-feminist told me not to encourage her (apparently assuming that I would corrupt his child and turn her into some anti-American, ant-Thanksgiving super-feminist*). Fortunately, grandma spoke up to say that she had made a very smart observation. It really is amazing, though, how kids can make unexpected and interesting observations in these types of educational experiences.

*It should probably be noted that this wasn’t long after I gave her Pam Munoz Ryan’s Esperanza Rising, a historical novel about a mother and daughter forced into becoming migrant farmers. It has a fairytale feel and is very age appropriate.

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