Comments on: I Choose You, Pikachu https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:51:29 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: thefrogprincess https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4192 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:51:29 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4192 I’ve been thinking about the issue of taking a break between undergrad and grad school for a while now. I went straight through but I think that was less a sense of absolute conviction and more about the fact that I saw it as unacceptable to have decided to do something but to take time off and just fill time doing something else. Looking back, I see this personality trait of mine to “not waste time,” as I put it then, as a flaw. I don’t know that I wish I myself took time off b/c I would have hated myself for “wasting time” but I think I would agree with noveggies and recommend that others do. In addition to the benefits of coming back to academia fully assured that you are not missing something else that you should be doing, I think taking time off allows you (perhaps) to have the kind of cultural and life experiences that you won’t get once you start down the path of academia. And, while most jobs right out of college don’t pay much, if you take time off, you have the chance to build up some savings (and some credit) that will help you financially in graduate school.

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By: noveggies https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4187 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:00:15 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4187 Whoops–that should read “language skills”

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By: noveggies https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4185 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:20:40 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4185 In terms of skills that rust quickly, in my case, I ended up going into a field that requires a second language, and I used the years between undergrad and grad school to get my language skills to the level necessary to do research. Of course this doesn’t really work for math or science. But in the case of humanities, esp literature and history where most or all of your research requires a high level of competency in a second language, taking a break from school where you also spend time improving language schools can save a lot of time later on. In my case, I didn’t have to take any language classes (at least for my primary language), which shaved off at least a year from my coursework.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4180 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:33:43 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4180 Noveggies advice is absolutely crucial, I think. I worked as a cook for a year. It was an interesting job, a good experience, but it also gave me a sense of why I wanted to be back in an academic environment. People who just shoot straight through often have the most ferocious crisis of the spirit when they get deep into their doctoral study.

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By: Doug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4179 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:54:37 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4179 Noveggies’ comment is a good spur to ask people on the other side of the search committee table: Are there fields in which people should head straight to doctoral programs because institutions want to hire people who are as young as possible? I used to hear this about English, but grad school was a long time ago for me, and conditions may have changed.

Absent people in particular fields saying yes, the ones who get hired are the ones who went straight through, I would say that Noveggies’ advice is very good. Most people considering the academic life should take a couple of years to sample something else and decide whether it really is for them. I can imagine this is more of a problem in disciplines where skills rust quickly — I’m thinking those that involve heavy doses of math and/or languages — and the personal gains from time outside the academy would be offset by the skill losses. Otherwise, I think that approaching a doctoral program with experience gained outside of school benefits everyone involved, and the candidate most of all.

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By: noveggies https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4174 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:54:45 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4174 I recently wandered over to your blog and have found it very helpful and informative, and a “productive” way of procrastinating from my dissertation research. As a current grad student, I wanted to add a few things to the comments. I took a few years off between undergrad and grad school, and I think this has made a huge difference in my experience of grad school compared with that of my friends who went straight into grad school. I did this in part because my undergrad advisor told me that unless I was so dedicated (or obsessed, let’s face it) with what I intended to study in grad school that I couldn’t think about doing anything else, I shouldn’t go to grad school because the pain wouldn’t make it worth the effort. I was an English major who loved books but wasn’t very interested in theory, so I decided to hold off on grad school until I actually found something I was passionate about. I am now starting my 5th year in history and for the most part enjoying a year away researching my diss.

I was very lucky in that the job I took during this inbetween time was somewhat academic–assistant curator at a history/culture museum. This happened by accident (and only after slogging away for a year as a phone receptionist–definitely the get one foot in at an interesting place by doing a horrible job and wait for a good opportunity to come around approach). I went to a pretty good liberal arts college, and the horrid phone receptionist job was the best thing I could have done my first year out–very humbling but character building experience. I caught the eye of the head of the curatorial department, and got into that department as an assistant, then was given more and more responsibilities, eventually becoming an asistant curator. This of course isn’t typical, and is as much a result of the size of the institution. But through my job, which involved organizing exhibitions and working with a lot of primary source material, I was able to think through what it was that I wanted to do, as well as what specific issue or theme I was really interested in. And since this job, while interesting, also fell in the category of workiing 60-80 hours a week for a meager income at an incompetent non-profit, grad school in comparison (despite those moments of extreme self-doubt and despair over the job market, etc) doesn’t seem so bad.

Also, since my work involved regular interactions with academics in similar fields, I didn’t suffer from feeling intimidated by professors to the same degree that many other grad students do, since I had had the experience of interacting with them as colleagues. I realize this approach, especially working in a somewhat academic institution, isn’t available for everyone, but if at all possible, I think taking time off for at least 3 years to do something else and to spend time thinking about whether or not grad school is a good fit is a very good idea. Working in the “real world” forces you to grow up in a way grad school doesn’t, it gives you perspective on grad school once you are there, and in my case, helped me to approach grad school as a kind of a job. I can say with certainty that grad school was the right decision for me, but I don’t think it would have been had I gone straight from undergrad to grad. I think there are only a few instances, at least in the humanities, where it will hurt more than help to wait a few years. You’ll be a little older when you finish, but not by much. Just a few thoughts.

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By: Western Dave https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4168 Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:39:52 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4168 Most of the people I know in graduate school who did well had done terminal masters in programs with a fairly narrow specialty and then moved on to the big time of a big 10 program. This approach had several advantages. It let them figure out some specialization, gave them a leg-up in the speed of program wars since they got a new program at their new institution, and really let them see the whole professionalization thing to figure out if they wanted to go whole hog or branch off to a better fit. I highly recommend this approach and probably would have benefitted from it myself. My own pitch was a fairly specialized question (I am interested in intercultural relations on the US frontier pre-Mexican war, approaching them as Diplomatic History) and bore little relation to my dissertation topic (uranium mining in New Mexico) except both were US intercultural histories. My dissertation topic was primarily shaped by hires that took place after I was accepted.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4159 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 10:23:59 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4159 Yeah, the key thing about this specificity is that this is not a commitment to what you’re going to study–it’s an indication that you’ve been able to imagine what the end state of study is going to be.

This is why for some disciplines, it may not be quite so necessary, because some disciplines have a variety of end states–you don’t have to be a professor if you have a doctorate in economics, for example.

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By: jimhu https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4158 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 07:03:32 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4158 I’m not sure if things are really different in the humanities compared to my field (Biochemistry/Biophysics/Molecular Biology) or not.

I’m pretty sure we agree that it’s a good thing for students to have a sense of what they’re getting into. But I’m curious to know if you really mean what I think you are saying about the need to have such specific research areas in mind. My initial reading was “Wow, that’s really different”. But rereading the post and seeing more of the qualifiers, I’m not so sure. Rambling rumination here

Given our shared desire to discourage applicants who drift into grad school and stay in a rut until they get shoved out the other end as embittered critics of the academy, l don’t think you’d want undergraduate environments to be fitted to what people will encounter in grad school. After all, most of the undergrads aren’t or shouldn’t be headed there. For those who are, this highlights the importance of undergraduate research opportunities that are as close as possible to the real thing.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/09/01/i-choose-you-pikachu/comment-page-1/#comment-4157 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 22:49:22 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=425#comment-4157 I suppose part of my argument is about how badly a lot of undergraduate environments are fitted to what people will encounter in graduate school.

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