Comments on: Bugs and Puppy Faces https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:28:03 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Valerie https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4091 Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:28:03 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4091 Well, yeah, and it’s all interactive, too. Little kids are driven to find out what is a boy? what is a girl? They look to their parents, to extended family, to peers, and to culture for the answer to those questions, and they pull all that stuff together to come up with their own tentative answers to what *they* are going to be, and then they see how that plays.

It was very funny to see how much our own family trope of “some people think…” (which was usually followed up with, “but we think…” on a whole host of issues of personal style and gender identification and other cultural stuff was internalized by our youngest, who came home from first grade with “Some people think the earth revolves around the sun!”

Er, yes, sweetheart, and those people would be the ones who are correct!

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By: hestal https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4081 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:45:39 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4081 Oops, I must have used an illegal character:

So I think you are saying that gender identificatiion is inculcated in the child by the following formula: x parts parental instruction + y parts peer pressure + z parts genetic endowment.

Makes sense to me. And I think that x is less than y is less than z.

And I think that political identification works the same way.

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By: hestal https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4080 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:42:41 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4080 So I think you are saying that gender identificatiion is inculcated in the child by the following formula: x parts parental instruction + y parts peer pressure + z parts genetic endowment.

Makes sense to me, and I think that: x

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4079 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:09:40 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4079 Yeah, what I’m trying to avoid is asking that question in such a manner where the very point of it is to give the questioner further reason to avoid an understanding of their attraction to a text, where the question isn’t an exploration of desire but simply a further showy performance of a disingenuous rejection. We should ask the question with a real interest in our desire and without a prior presumption that the end result of exploration will be to confirm the politically incorrect character of the text.

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By: Rob https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4078 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:09:36 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4078 t?” that’s an interesting question, and one that doesn’t involve playacting, as long as it doesn’t arrive at a sort of disciplined disavowal of the pleasure or attraction that it began with." There's an ambiguity about the condition you express there. Do you mean a disavowal of the pleasure that, after the critical examination of it, nonetheless remains, or do you mean a disavowal of the pleasure that has in the process of its critical examination has evaporated? The first version seems to make sense, but the second doesn't, since it would be quite destructive of the point of critical reflection - to not disavow a pleasure which had evaporated under the light of reason (or whatever) would make the use of reason (or whatever) pointless; it'd be to privilege, for no obvious reason, your initial reaction over your considered one. I even think the first version needs to be expressed pretty carefully, since the condition of the initial question remaining interesting is that we don't disavow the results of the processes of examination either; the tension can only exist if we really take both the pleasure and the reflection seriously. And I think that's to the good in a way; the kind of idea of sin-in-culture that that can sustain can be enjoyably transgressive.]]> “…when a critic asks, “Why do I like this text, when I shouldn’t?” that’s an interesting question, and one that doesn’t involve playacting, as long as it doesn’t arrive at a sort of disciplined disavowal of the pleasure or attraction that it began with.”

There’s an ambiguity about the condition you express there. Do you mean a disavowal of the pleasure that, after the critical examination of it, nonetheless remains, or do you mean a disavowal of the pleasure that has in the process of its critical examination has evaporated? The first version seems to make sense, but the second doesn’t, since it would be quite destructive of the point of critical reflection – to not disavow a pleasure which had evaporated under the light of reason (or whatever) would make the use of reason (or whatever) pointless; it’d be to privilege, for no obvious reason, your initial reaction over your considered one. I even think the first version needs to be expressed pretty carefully, since the condition of the initial question remaining interesting is that we don’t disavow the results of the processes of examination either; the tension can only exist if we really take both the pleasure and the reflection seriously. And I think that’s to the good in a way; the kind of idea of sin-in-culture that that can sustain can be enjoyably transgressive.

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By: jd https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4076 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:56:01 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4076 I’m with Wendy here. Couldn’t we express — & teach children to express — a certain disdain for cultural cliches? I’m not talking about compelling anyone to do anything, but being willing to express a critical view of the world to both children & the purveyors of face painting.

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By: back40 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4075 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:35:32 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4075 If the catalog included faces for boys that allowed them to be more fierce or channel their doffal I suspect that there would be more boys in the face painting line. But, those are taboo faces in polite society these days. In some ways, boys are taboo. We really don’t have much need for them any longer and they can be so disruptive. The last thing we want to do is to amplify them by externalizing their internal desires.

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By: Wendy https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4069 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:52:58 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4069 I put “command” in quotes because I don’t really think of it as a command–just a forceful expression of opinion. 🙂 I’m not ready to put any sort of institutional force behind the encouragement to change social norms. But I am prepared to *speak* about it–and what you seem to be doing is discouraging or dismissing such speaking. When you say “But, for example, am I prepared to say that they should have a wider range of designs?” I think we’re talking about different things. I think it goes without saying that I should say they should. However, I’m also aware I can’t *make* them have a wider range of designs. You seem to equate *saying* people should do something as *making* them do something. I only wish that were so!

How will the face painters know that more children are ready to accept more gender-neutral designs unless parents go up to them and say “Hey, why don’t you have more gender-neutral designs”? That’s a kind of feedback that *is* useful.

That said, of course I know parents who “command their children in these terms” (though as an aside I don’t think all the people who prohibit the tv necessarily do it because of gender or “political correctness” reasons). I just think those parents are a significant minority, and it’s unfair and dismissive to label all those who advocate a certain cultural politics of minimizing gender differences in consumer goods as parenting in this way. That’s just not accurate.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4067 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:06:18 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4067 Wendy, honestly, I do see parents who command their children in these terms. You mean you haven’t met someone who has earnestly, aggressively tried to keep their boy from playing with war toys, for example? Or someone who believes their child should not watch TV under any circumstances? I think in this respect that boy desires get more heavily “disciplined” by politically correct parents, though girl culture may spark a lot of fretting and complaining about the culture industry.

But I’d extend it outward: I think we command each other in these terms under the banner of “political correctness”, and that’s equally bad for most of the same reasons. We say: don’t watch *that* film, it has a bad representation in it. Don’t do that activity: it has bad representational politics. Maybe we command ourselves. Are your interests “native” to you, or the ones you feel you ought to have? Do you ever have to talk yourself into liking something, or disliking something?

Commanding the people selling culture is a different matter, but there are problems there too. Put yourself in the role of the manager of a facepainting operation at a large corporate amusement park. What are you actually prepared to ask that person to do that wouldn’t represent economic suicide? I’m prepared to say that they don’t actually have to label various designs “girl” and “boy”. I’m prepared to suggest–for their own sake, because I think it wouldn’t hurt their sales–that they have the models a bit more mixed up (e.g., a few boys with butterflies, etc. and a few girls with monsters). But, for example, am I prepared to say that they should have a wider range of designs? Not really because they’ve got to train young summer workers in face painting and pay them an appropriate wage: you can’t ask for unique, boutique or countercultural designs that might be difficult to execute and might not be asked for more than three or four times in a summer. I’m not prepared to ask them to challenge the entire semiotics of children’s culture. It would be cool if they did do some funky stuff, sure, but it isn’t reasonable to demand or command that they do so. Am I prepared to make a big deal out of any of my modestly critical observations about what they do offer? No, because it’s also important to be proportionate about this kind of criticism.

If the facepainters come back and say, “Look, this is what these kids want”, they’re not really wrong. If I gathered together a panel of my daughter’s friends and said, “What kinds of pictures would you like to paint on your face?” or “What kind of costume would you like to wear at Halloween”, a lot of the answers would look like the catalog of available choices. A smaller plurality might be more individual choices that are badly represented in the available commercial systems, sure. My daughter’s Halloween ideas are usually NOT easily satisfied by what you can get in the costume stores. (The current plan for this fall is that she goes as one of her favorite Pokemon, not Pikachu, and my wife and I go as Team Rocket. I’d have to shave my mustache to be James, though, and I don’t exactly have the right figure. I could be Professor Oak or Professor Rowan but they’re kind of generic figures.) But the facepainters wouldn’t be wrong to say, “Princesses, monsters, fairies, cats both sell AND they’re relatively easy to turn into iconic face designs that most of our workers can execute well enough to satisfy the kids”.

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By: k8 https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/08/14/bugs-and-puppy-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-4064 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:32:52 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=421#comment-4064 Tangent warning: While working on my dissertation today, I came across an interesting use of tying masculine values with certain types of readings for boys. I posted it my site if you are interested. [http://harmoniasnecklace.blogspot.com/2007/08/boys-books-and-reading.html]

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