Comments on: Ways to Require History https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Tue, 22 May 2007 00:24:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: Jason Mittell https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3613 Tue, 22 May 2007 00:24:55 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3613 Great discussion. One brief addition – teaching at a SLAC, my experience is that students navigation of a major is driven by factors other than intellectual interests more often than not. The two primary motivations seem to be faculty reputation/perception and schedule (with the order varying by student & scenario). Then comes meeting requirements, and finally academic interest. Ideally the choice of major is driven by intellectual interests, but alas perceived credentialing, job placement, parental pressure, etc. often steers that boat as well. Just a pragmatic addition to how designing curricula by admirable aims often fails to achieve its goals for fairly random or extraneous reasons.

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By: Doug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3607 Mon, 21 May 2007 13:33:49 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3607 The introduction to Norman Davies’ Europe is a good overview of the construction of “Western Civilization” as it came to be taught. His axe is its neglect of the eastern half of Europe, and the complaint is entirely justified.

One of the things that’s happening to the discussion here is that many levels are overlapping. Are we talking about institutional variety within US higher education as a whole? Are we talking about variety within relatively small, liberal arts colleges? Does it make a difference if those colleges stand alone, or are part of a larger institution? Are we talking about requirements for a major? Or requirements for anyone who wishes to earn a B.A.?

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3606 Mon, 21 May 2007 11:36:23 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3606 Yes, I thought that was a good report (I commented on it here, in fact). I don’t think it’s the spirit of the more recent reports, however. “Institutional pluralism” seems the opposite of what ACTA advocates at present. I don’t think you can argue that every institution which fails to require Shakespeare is unacceptable and still claim you’re looking for the spread of many different models for structuring undergraduate curricula.

One of the basic things that an interest in pluralism requires is exploration of questions, notional open-mindedness, curiosity, a taste for difference and innovation, generosity, all things which ACTA’s rhetoric lacks in recent reports.

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By: oconnor https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3605 Mon, 21 May 2007 07:51:11 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3605 s one place where an organization like ACTA could play a valuable role if they were so inclined to do it. Rather than shilling for their own very evidently narrow, specific and non-debatable vision of good academics, they could be arguing for liberal arts institutions to spread out and explore a wide variety of highly 'disciplined' or coherent models for structuring a curriculum." But ACTA does do just this. See <a href="http://www.goacta.org/publications/Reports/BEPFinal.pdf" rel="nofollow"><i>Becoming an Educated Person</i></a>, which advocates for a strong core undergraduate curriculum and explores how different colleges and universities (among them Brooklyn College, Cal Tech, Columbia, and Notre Dame) have designed such curricula to suit their particular missions and institutional needs. ]]> Tim,

You say “there is not nearly so much institutional pluralism as I personally would like to see. Again, I think that’s one place where an organization like ACTA could play a valuable role if they were so inclined to do it. Rather than shilling for their own very evidently narrow, specific and non-debatable vision of good academics, they could be arguing for liberal arts institutions to spread out and explore a wide variety of highly ‘disciplined’ or coherent models for structuring a curriculum.” But ACTA does do just this. See Becoming an Educated Person, which advocates for a strong core undergraduate curriculum and explores how different colleges and universities (among them Brooklyn College, Cal Tech, Columbia, and Notre Dame) have designed such curricula to suit their particular missions and institutional needs.

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By: The Constructivist https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3603 Mon, 21 May 2007 05:50:09 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3603 Building on The Valve’s recent book event, I would suggest historians as well as literary scholars consider oceans/seas/basins as an interesting variation on area studies–consider the work done on the Mediterranean, the Indian Ocean, the Black Atlantic, and the Asian Pacific, for example. Thus the comparative nation-based work that often goes on under an area studies umbrella can be put in a transnational frame.

You can check out SUNY Fredonia’s history department’s model for world history and see what you like/dislike about it–they switched over to a version of world history in the mid-’90s….

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3601 Sat, 19 May 2007 11:41:13 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3601 Very much. Those are really good observations, every one of them.

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By: David https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3600 Sat, 19 May 2007 05:41:35 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3600 Let me weigh in a bit by saying most departments I’ve been associated with could have a structured and unstructured tract within one major without too much effort. The key would be combination of good advising and a department that maintains some semblance of intellectual coherence (allowing for some diversity, but not the kind that hit literature in the 80s). I think most history departments would do best to make space for both types of students, the structured learner and the free agent, market actor. The key is really sparking intellectual curiosity more than anything, which is probably the thing most lacking among large swathes of American college students or at least those that go to big state universities in the midwest.

I’ll add a couple caveats/experience that perhaps add to or complicate that statement.

1. I think that the structured versions work best when you have a true class experience, such that a group of people move through the curriculum together and can consistently refer back to shared knowledge gained. Obviously the danger is always a dud group and then more are setback by the weak experience, however moving through a coherent and interacting body of knowledge allows one to think deeper probably quicker than dipping into a wide variety of areas.

2. As to the more open system, let’s say market style system, the key is maintaining a consistently high quality of courses over the 3 or 4 years that a student can draw from a departments well of knowledge. If a department can be confident in that ability then the students can swim in a fascinating field with teachers who are really engaged in what they are teaching. It also opens up new vistas or allows old ways to looked at again with new eyes for the students and the faculty.

3. A couple experiences, perhaps relevant perhaps not as much. I had something of this experience being in a small honors college within a large state uni, where the university English distribution requirement was replaced by a Great Books courses spread over the 1st and 2nd year. It worked because you had class with a lot of the same people and worked from a canon. It all fit together well and you came away with a much stronger sense of the material than the freshman comp. series produced. Then I shifted into the ocean that was being a history major, where I couldn’t have possibly have taken a more random accumulation of courses based mostly on random availability and the lowdown on the teacher. This went mostly toward poor advising and a department that lacked any coherence as colleagues, teachers, or researchers. I guess I bring these experience forward to say on the ground it is hard to make either one work really well.

4. One ‘methodological’ constructed version are departments that push students into original research almost from the get go. I mostly read about but not experienced this. I find this deeply problematic as it makes history too vocational and not adequately disciplinary or intellectual.

I hope I’ve advanced the discussion a bit.

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By: withywindle https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3598 Sat, 19 May 2007 04:43:26 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3598 Keeping in mind that I’d really prefer that students actually learn history in high school, such that we don’t have to do remedial history teaching in college in the first place … out of desperation, the Western Civ sequence and an American history sequence, as the first priorities. At places where you can do more than that, some sort of course focusing on the writing of history as moral instruction, formation of Western identity, mode of thought–Herodotus, Thucydides, Plutarch, Tacitus, etc. If I can get away with it, Nancy Struever, *The Language of History in the Renaissance*.

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By: jim https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3596 Fri, 18 May 2007 23:46:11 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3596 There may not be as much pluralism as you’d like to see, but compared to other countries there’s an enormous amount. I grew up (and first went up to University) in England. Higher education there is in a straitjacket compared to here. What I fear most about “outcomes-based” accreditation is it will destroy the existing pluralism. You don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2007/05/18/ways-to-require-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3595 Fri, 18 May 2007 23:39:21 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=376#comment-3595 I do think ikl is right, by the way, that there is not nearly so much institutional pluralism as I personally would like to see. Again, I think that’s one place where an organization like ACTA could play a valuable role if they were so inclined to do it. Rather than shilling for their own very evidently narrow, specific and non-debatable vision of good academics, they could be arguing for liberal arts institutions to spread out and explore a wide variety of highly “disciplined” or coherent models for structuring a curriculum. If not them, someone else should be doing that. This is another problem with my use of the rhetoric of the marketplace: to some extent, the mainstream providers are converging on a kind of middle-muddle rather than branching out and being distinctive or particular. We need more “long tail” institutions.

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