Comments on: Editor, Edit Thyself! https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Wed, 03 May 2006 18:21:30 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: unclewilly https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1400 Wed, 03 May 2006 18:21:30 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1400 “If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.”
–Elmore Leonard

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By: Jeremy Stober https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1388 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:47:08 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1388 After coming back to writing papers after mostly writing proofs for many semesters, I found I was obsessed with the issue of whether the adjectives or adverbs I was using were justified. After mathematical writing, using vague qualifiers of any kind just seemed weird.

An introductory course in mathematical writing and proofs would probably go a long way to contributing to better analytical writing. That is what mathematics education really offers to the liberal arts, even if all the more advanced concepts are of no use.

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By: Melissa https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1386 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 06:19:10 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1386 Oops!

Quite a number of typos & unfinsihed changes in paragraph 2. I think the sense is understandable.

This must be my version of Hartman’s Law of Prescriptivist Retaliation: Any article or statement about correct grammar, punctuation, or spelling is bound to contain at least one eror.

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By: Melissa https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1385 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:24:30 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1385 This seems to me a good passage to use, for a start at least.

Even good student papers often suffer from problems (organization; s & p structure, misuse of words, erroneous presentation of some fact or consept). A decently passage with some problems permits more focus. And perhaps instuctors who post student before-and-after papers are likely to do so in WebCt or other closed forum?

I like using a blog passage for the reasons Dee find them problematic. First it is “different from the formal essay writing.” It leads to discussion of genre & disciplinary conventions. More important, the passage actually needs an edit if it is to be part of a more serious document.

As Doug says, your tentaitve language makes for immediate & lively prose. Why have you cut specific examples that give a sense of the goings-on: “some people will find this protest offensive…students and faculty and others can say whatever they like.”? These helped me understand the situation and the administrators’ positions.

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By: Dee https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1374 Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:29:04 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1374 Hmm. I suppose my hesitation is over whether they will be able to transfer such (extremely valuable) lessons to their own writing. Swarthmore students, probably yes.

I think the comments gave me more food for thought about editing than the original paragraph and edit. That would certainly be a new type of teaching tool–group discussion of editing.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1368 Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:53:20 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1368 In pedagogical terms, the before-and-after is exactly what I’m trying to do, and it does seem to me there isn’t much like it.

I find a lot of the presentations of this material in formal compositional pedagogy a bit sterile. The advantage of taking my blog entries as an example is that they’re “writing in the wild”, not written to be pedagogical demonstrations.

Plus I can actually raise these more interesting and subtle questions that are coming up in this discussion. When does an edit for clarity and brevity actually sacrifice a sense of individual style, or miscommunicate the distinctiveness of my voice? I could work with the students on several levels of editing: the obvious no-brainer edits that anyone might suggest, the more contentious edits that substantively change the meaning and tone, the excessive edits that turn my blog writing into something it’s not (say, by adding in snark or drive-by shootings).

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By: Dee https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1367 Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:11:17 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1367 When you first mentioned this idea, I thought “oh please do it,” thinking it would be a super useful teaching tool. But now, especially after reading the comments on this post, I’m wondering.

What would be your audience for such a series/presentation? If students, I’m not sure this is the right material to use for such illustrations, because blog writing is so different from the formal essay writing that they do for courses.

I do think the before-and-after editing approach to teaching writing is excellent, but I personally do it with student papers. (side note: I just tried to look for such material on the web, and couldn’t really find any, which seems odd, everything else is out there.)

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By: Doug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1366 Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:34:12 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1366 And another thing: “words like ‘unfortunate'” pop out” was one of the best phrases in the original. It gives a sense of immediacy, it also gives a sense of the administrators bending over backwards not to say what they apparently think. I would have kept that part.

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By: Doug https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1365 Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:32:46 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1365 I think the tentative nature of many of the thoughts on this blog, and the deliberate acknowledgement of alternative possibilities are important elements of what makes the blog so inviting. The extra words substitute for non-verbal cues, and readers realize they are being invited to join a conversation. Short, sharp snark we can get from Atrios, reporting from Josh Marshall, multiple voices at Crooked Timber or Daily Kos. Here we get thoughtful weighing of many alternatives. That’s not the only mode that Easily Distracted comes in, but it’s the main one. For me, the openness is an important part of the appeal.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2006/04/27/editor-edit-thyself/comment-page-1/#comment-1364 Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:01:51 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=178#comment-1364 I think what I want to figure out is when my “voice” is just sleepwalking its way through an entry, and when it’s exactly how I want to sound. I’m not going to become Ernest Hemingway, nor would I want to be. My authentic voice is a bit wordy, and my arguments are by their nature deliberative. I just want to keep from the written equivalent of droning on just because I can.

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