Comments on: The Union Label https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:55:53 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: individual https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-1747 Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:55:53 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-1747 s offers, particularly in final-offer selection states. Management might be expected to concede toward what an arbitrator’s award might be, rather than to risk the choice of a union’s extreme position. And for the union’s part it might take a harder line when it has a final resolution available that does not entail the risk of an illegal strike. In studying fire fighter arbitration laws, arbitration was found to be associated with higher salaries and shorter working hours the longer the law was in effect. Wage increases averaged about 11 to 22 percent higher in arbitration states. ]]> The public-safety unions in particular have been strong advocates of binding arbitration to resolve impasse procedures. While arbitration does provide a method for resolving interest differences when strikes are prohibited, less information is available on the impact of the process on bargaining outcomes.

Two studies found relatively minimal wage effects (0 to 5 percent) associated with arbitration. However arbitratio should serve to raise management’s offers, particularly in final-offer selection states.

Management might be expected to concede toward what an arbitrator’s award might be, rather than to risk the choice of a union’s extreme position. And for the union’s part it might take a harder line when it has a final resolution available that does not entail the risk of an illegal strike. In studying fire fighter arbitration laws, arbitration was found to be associated with higher salaries and shorter working hours the longer the law was in effect. Wage increases averaged about 11 to 22 percent higher in arbitration states.

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By: David Chudzicki https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-905 Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:47:01 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-905 oops, wrong entry.

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By: David Chudzicki https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-904 Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:46:45 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-904 Re lonely position: Maybe it’s an easy position for undergraduates to take, from our luxurious seat of just taking courses, and being encouraged to take courses in different but connected disciplines. We haven’t yet gotten to the point where we’re asked to focus in on one discipline’s interests and methods to the exclusion of everything else.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-825 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:23:47 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-825 Rvarco: By mentioning Western Europe, you really make my point. 1,2 3, and 4 are compatible in Europe because of major, systematic differences in the entirety of the state’s role in the management of the economy–and before we start getting stars in our eyes and wishing we were European, the compatibility of 1, 2, 3 and 4 in Western Europe are not achieved without tradeoffs in other domains. Such as the sluggish immobility of the public sector and its consequent effects on the French economy, or the massively overbearing role of the state in Scandinavian countries. There’s also, if we’re talking public transport, an important material difference in terms of scales, distances and often centralization of urban infrastructure. The pattern of growth in most American urban areas, lamentable as it may be, simply saddles the US with a challenge that many Western European nations don’t face when it comes to building a public transport sector that is “great”.

Since I’m not very fond of many of the tradeoffs made in Western Europe, I’m not entirely clear that 1,2,3 and 4 are compatible. That’s just notionally. In practical political terms at the present moment in the United States, they clearly are not, not without crimping at one end or another. It is the union’s job, since they are the ones taking public action, to articulate how they want to negotiate the relation between these competing priorities. Failing to do so is to offer a variety of “magical thinking”, which I’d argue is one of the reasons that progressives in general are strugging politically: they don’t explain well how they’d negotiate competing priorities in the public domain and in management of government, and so most people are suspicious that promises of the capacious ability to have everything and choose nothing are just that, promises. I join in that suspicion, in part precisely because arguments like “In Western Europe, everything is wonderful” that happen to be missing on the backside both a recognition of the costs of the wonderfulness of public policy there and the material differences that enable some possible choices.

Beyond the larger arguments about unionism, there is also the basic argument about politics. If what you’re doing almost necessarily requires public support to be ultimately successful, and you show no interest whatsoever in even gestures that seek that support, then you’re politically incompetent. Which is not my responsibility: it is squarely the responsibility of the union in question.

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By: joeo https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-824 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:28:11 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-824 The decline of unions can’t really be blamed on the unions. Declines in the US manufactoring sector and increased unskilled immigration are not the unions’ fault. Las Vegas shows that when businessess need workers the unions can be an effective tool.

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By: rvarco https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-823 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:22:57 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-823 Do unions raise wages for all workers? You say they did once in the 50s and 60s but not since the 70s and 80s. From an empirical point of view you seem to be all wrong. The most recent data shows higher wages in U.S. States with high union density and lower wages in U.S. States with low union densisty. See (scroll down):

http://www.seiu113.org/appResources/scPages/union_advantage.cfm

What else other than high union density explains the higher relative average wages of European workers vs. U.S. workers.

From a theoretical point of view the case is fairly solid. A union contract reduces the supply of labor below a certain price. What reason is there to believe that it will not increase the price of labor in the reamining pool?

Your explanation of what happened in the 70s and 80s amounts to a giant hand wave. Do you really think the fundemental structures of the U.S. economy could be so easily shaped by the attitudes of union leaders. Let me suggest an alternative explanation. By the 40s, Labor organized the great industrial enterprises and gained strong toeholds throughout the economy. Then came Taft-Hartley which wiped unions out of half of the U.S. and effectively halted their ability to organize in any private sector industry. The U.S. population grew and expanded in the non-union parts of the country (South and West) not because people wanted to avoid a union but because those were the less populated areas. Then came the 70s and 80s and the decimation of the older industrial enterprises. In Europe where it was still effectively legal to organize, industrial unions were able to keep up and other union organized the growing service sector. In the U.S. this was not possible because the organizing tactics of the 30s were now illegal.

As for Philly you say ‘adequate’ health care depends on what other workers get for health care. But if I have inadequate health care, mine does not get any more ‘adequate’ if yours is less than mine.

You want the transit workers to accept give up 1 adequate health care, so that you can 2. keep the Philly tax burden low, 3. avoid increasing the cost of transit to the working poor, and 4. avoid cutting transit services for the poor.

You think 1 is incompatibe with 2,3, and 4. I suspect the transit workers think 1, 2, 3, and 4 are all compatible. All thoughout Europe they have universal health care and great public transit. You want the transit workers to accept less health care so you can avoid the public policy choices required to make 1,2,3, & 4 all compatible. Should they do a better job explaining how 1,2,3, & 4 are all compatible? Probably. But why are you so outraged that they have not? After all their job is just to drive the buses. Isn’t the task of expaining how 1,2,3, and 4 are all compatible really the job of, say, professors with blogs?

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By: David Salmanson https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-822 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:17:26 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-822 The union is in a tough spot. They are having a hard time getting their point across. The few times union spokesmen have gotten face time on tv, they have been effective in pointing out that 1) they are willing to make co-pays but it is ridiculous to expect a minimum wage worker and the head of Septa make the same contribution. They are holding out for a sliding scale. However, the union has done nothing to try to win public support. No coffee stands on the Regional Rail platforms or even information picketers explaining the union’s position. No attempts to get kids to school or organize ride shares or carpools. 4000,000 people rely Septa busses and trolleys and many have no other options. If the union leaders think public support is important, they aren’t showing it. They appear to be acting in narrowly self-interested ways that don’t say, “we have a greater good in mind here folks.” Is it unfair to expect unions to have a greater good in mind? Not really, as long as they don’t expect anyone who doesn’t share their narrow self-interest to not cross their picket line. The Philadelphia Building trades lost me when they blocked a provision in the Philly housing code that would allow PVC hook-ups to the sewer rather than the more expensive metal. The only reason for it is one person can hook up PVC pretty quickly and it takes two people a while to hook up metal. Using building codes to create job security is short sighted, and it makes it easier for me to cross a building trades picket line because these folks don’t care about me so why should I care about them?

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-821 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:26:05 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-821 I just don’t think that it’s the case any longer, Rvarco, that strong unions lift wages and benefits across the board. I thiink that stopped being the case in the late 1970s and early 1980s, when some unions (private and public) in both the US and Western Europe leveraged their power into wage and benefit packages that were actually extremely differentiated from the rest of the labor marketplace and which in some cases threatened the actual viability of the businesses or services for which they labored. I think historically that the union movement in the United States is responsible for the general postwar prosperity of the 1950s, and for the foundational assumptions about American social mobility and fairness that helped to secure. (Many of which are under assault now.) So credit is due, and often denied, and that’s a fair point. But at some juncture, unionism drifted away from that, partly because it remained stuck in a tunnel vision of what the purpose of collective bargaining was. There was a point in the late 1970s in both the US and the UK where I think unions needed to evolve, needed to become more concerned with stewardship over the businesses and services they provided, needed to overcome an impulse to regulatory and customary inhibition of the work ethos of members, needed to pursue a different sense of workplace excellence that exhorted individual as well as collective achievement.

I wouldn’t begrudge the transit workers adequate health care (though that’s really not the term for it, given that “adequate” in this case is also superior to comparable health care coverage in the rest ofthe labor market) if adequate health care came from an internal reallocation of available resources within public transit systems, and came with an adequate address to the stewardship of transit workers over the public service they provide. On the latter, all that’s really needed is more political savvy, more care and attentiveness to the burdens that a strike puts on the public: that’s my most important point. The union in this case does not seem to care, particularly, and hasn’t in the past when they’ve gone out on strike. They plead meager resources for advertising budgets and so on, but that shows just how badly they misunderstand the political priorities they should have. It’s not about spending money for TV ads: it’s about getting any union officials who are not in the negotiating room out there speaking to the public in churches, in community centers, about pounding the pavement and taking the time to show concern for people, listen to the problems you’ve imposed on them, being solicitious. It’s about trying to find solutions: form carpools of union members and union supporters to help older Philadelphians dependent on bus transport get to their destinations. Sure, that’s mostly gestural, but that’s what’s needed. The lack of such gestures amounts to a big “screw you”, a vacating of the public space that unions used to occupy fairly well.

As for why taxpayers should be allowed to exploit workers, that goes to the former problem: if the demands of the workers in this case result in either higher fees to ride public transit, or the significant reduction of public services in some other domain, or higher taxes, those are all compulsory steps that result in serious public consequences. That’s what it means to be public. If a business raises its prices so high that I cannot afford their services, I can stop buying what they’re selling unless it’s basic food, basic shelter, water, heating, basic health care. (All of which are services we either work through the public sector or in some fashion heavily subordinate to public concerns or regulation). You can’t endorse doing something in the public interest that has regressive consequences elsewhere: if getting the transit workers adequate health care means preventing poorer Philadelphians from using public transit, you haven’t done anything worth doing. There is a heedlessness about the public domain and the state that some progressives have, as if the state is a boundless, infinite source of public goods. It doesn’t work that way: if you want to support one public good, you have to tell me which other one you’re going to take away from and why. In this context, I’d rather see transit workers operating closer to what the labor market as a whole is doing (and look for some general public solution to the health care crisis) than give them a better-than-market deal at the cost of increasing Philadelphia’s already high tax burdens (which are negatively suppressing economic growth in the city), at the cost of making public transit less accessible to poorer Philadelphians, or at the cost of reductions in the quality and capacity of the transit system itself. That’s my considered judgement of how to maximize the public good in this case. If the transit workers feel differently, it’s incumbent on them not to articulate their case selfcenteredly, but in full light of that larger public terrain. It’s not about them and that they do not understand this is the main problem that concerns me.

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By: rvarco https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-818 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:30:36 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-818 s the problem. People expect them to be inscrutable, distant and self-interested (even though they are also public servants); they have a different expectation of labor." Why is this the case? It is a sort of a bizaro world where we expect the most public spiritedness from those with the least power and the least assests, while we excuse selfishness in those with the most wealth and priviledge. I think the explanation is the classic phenomenon of free ridership. Unions lift wages and benefits, not just for their own members, but for all workers. The working poor who suffer from the transit strike gain far more when strong unions are able to lift wages and health care coverage for all. But most people, especially upper class professionals only see the imediate pain and not the broader benefit. As for public sector unions, why should tax-payers be allowed to exploit workers any more than corporate shareholders? If the tax burden of providing adequate wages and health care falls excessively on the poor, that is a problem of an unfair tax code. Why is it worse to provide adequate health care for private sector workers by cutting into profits, than to provide adequate health care to public sector workers by taxing large corporate salaries and capitol gains? Of course health care should be dealth with as a national issue and no boad national organization has done more to promote national health care than the labor movement. So why do you begrudge the transit workers adequate health care?]]> “This is equally true for the managers on the other side of the negotiations, of course, but that’s the problem. People expect them to be inscrutable, distant and self-interested (even though they are also public servants); they have a different expectation of labor.”

Why is this the case? It is a sort of a bizaro world where we expect the most public spiritedness from those with the least power and the least assests, while we excuse selfishness in those with the most wealth and priviledge.

I think the explanation is the classic phenomenon of free ridership. Unions lift wages and benefits, not just for their own members, but for all workers. The working poor who suffer from the transit strike gain far more when strong unions are able to lift wages and health care coverage for all. But most people, especially upper class professionals only see the imediate pain and not the broader benefit.

As for public sector unions, why should tax-payers be allowed to exploit workers any more than corporate shareholders? If the tax burden of providing adequate wages and health care falls excessively on the poor, that is a problem of an unfair tax code. Why is it worse to provide adequate health care for private sector workers by cutting into profits, than to provide adequate health care to public sector workers by taxing large corporate salaries and capitol gains?

Of course health care should be dealth with as a national issue and no boad national organization has done more to promote national health care than the labor movement. So why do you begrudge the transit workers adequate health care?

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By: hektor.bim https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/11/02/the-union-label/comment-page-1/#comment-817 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:24:26 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=115#comment-817 I don’t think I can agree with your statements here. Unions manifestly have supported health care coverage for all Americans and have repeatedly done so, both by supporting Democratic candidates who favor that and by agitating on the issue themselves. So I don’t think you can fault them on this score – they in fact have been working hard for health care for everyone. They haven’t been successful yet, but that does not mean they have not been trying. What you seem to be saying here is that unions have to accept the crappy health care situation in this country and muffle their complaints until they are able to overturn it in one fell swoop by federal legislation. This logic is by no means obvious to me, so perhaps you can expand your thoughts.

I still don’t accept your distinction between public service managers and union leaders. Both should be held to high moral standards, and I find it pretty disturbing that you are willing to allow managers to be immoral as the natural order of things.

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