Comments on: Mawwage https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/10/21/mawwage/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:20:46 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: ADM https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/10/21/mawwage/comment-page-1/#comment-806 Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:20:46 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=111#comment-806 It’s interesting that most of the discussions of polygamy tend to assume a heterosexual polygynous relationship, whereas, were we to look at in purely in the legal terms Tim describes, polyandry would be an option — as would any variation of polyamorous relationship, no distinction for which persons in that relationship are having sex with which other persons.

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By: dkane https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/10/21/mawwage/comment-page-1/#comment-804 Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:15:56 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=111#comment-804 Thanks as always for the thoughtful reply. I think that the days of being able to “avoid taking that request seriously” are numbered. Start here for a good introduction. When the legal challenges start, you won’t need “more and more,” you’ll just need one.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/10/21/mawwage/comment-page-1/#comment-803 Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:01:01 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=111#comment-803 I think it’s an interesting point, and not necessary off-topic, since Gallagher argued at Volokh that she actually thinks polygamy is far less of a threat to the institution of marriage. This may be a mischievious point on her part designed to provoke resistance to SSM or it may be serious.

Either way, there is a point to asking how one could make an argument in favor of SSM and not polygamy. I suppose it could be done on the argument that SSM is still one person married to one other person, and that polygamy would bring with it a wholly different legal challenge in terms of finding standard ways to define its contractual terms. E.g., that a “liberal” form of polygamy would somehow have to acknowledge the equality of all partners to the marriage contract, and that this might prove difficult given the extent to which the vast majority of contractual uses of marriage at the moment (governing inheritance, joint assets, custody and raising of children) and so on are extremely geared to two-person relations. This would be a practical rather than philosophical objection, though it might have larger philosophical underpinning (e.g., that there is something about a three-person relationship that is intrinsically more unstable).

One could extend from this to observe that SSM marriages largely operate under the same general cultural understanding of marriage and relationship as heterosexual marriage, that they’re both about the dominance of the companionate ideology that arose in the early 20th Century, and that polygamy, whether in the Mormon form or in some 21st Century form, would not necessarily come in under that paradigm–that we don’t really have any cultural language beyond the Biblical, the non-Western, or polyamorous. to imagine polygamous *marriages*, all of which depart from the companionate ideology (SSM or otherwise) that structures our current understanding of marriage.

But I do think this is a legitimate issue to raise (as opposed to the truly misbegotten attempts by some critics of SSM to raise pedophilia, bestiality, etc., which really are different cases). If we saw more and more stable, “companionate”, three-person households arising where the practictioners started demanding marriage instruments, then I think you almost couldn’t avoid taking that request seriously.

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By: Nick https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/10/21/mawwage/comment-page-1/#comment-802 Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:50:23 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=111#comment-802 I’d find it hard asserting step seven if I’d accepted the previous six, but there would of course be pitched battles at each and every step in the above case.

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By: dkane https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/10/21/mawwage/comment-page-1/#comment-801 Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:12:42 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=111#comment-801 This is off-topic, but I would like to know what Tim thinks about the here-comes-polygamy argument against gay marriage. See Colby Cosh for more. Consider some empirical claims:

1) Once gay marriage is legalized/formalized, there will be calls for legalizing polygamy.

2) The test cases for this will feature Muslim legal immigrants to Canada and US states like Massachusetts with polygamous marriages entered into in their home countries. These families will feature as much love/affection as any heterosexual or homosexual couple could ask for.

3) The plaintives will be able to make arguments at least as good as the proponents of gay marriage (with regard to history, justice and the like).

4) Once it is accepted that there is no reason to restrict marriage to a man/woman pair, it seems unreasonable to restrict it to a two person pair.

5) Polygamy will be made legal in at least some areas.

6) Many wealthy powerful men will discover that polygamy is a wonderful thing.

7) Society will be worse off.

I am not asserting that I agree with this, but it certainly seems like the strongest case that the anti-gay-marriage crowd can make.

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By: Joey Headset https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/10/21/mawwage/comment-page-1/#comment-800 Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:39:12 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=111#comment-800 If she had really done her research, I think Maggie Gallagher would have found that all sorts of wonderous things are possible with a little help from male masterbation and a turkey baster. I guess she just doesn’t visit the same websites as I do…

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