Comments on: DeLong, Diamond and Savage Minds https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/07/29/delong-diamond-and-savage-minds/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:51:38 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.15 By: bbenzon https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/07/29/delong-diamond-and-savage-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-408 Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:51:38 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=68#comment-408 s not that much more technical a term than “blacks”. Throughout the book, Diamond seems to me to cling to terms and categories that he doesn’t need, and I’m not really sure why. </i> He may need the racial terms for rhetorical reasons. What GGS does is provide a Big Picture account of the difference levels of material success achieved by different "races" of people, as those races were recognized by 18th and 19th century Western thinkers. What makes GGS so attractive to the popular audience, however, is that it provides that account without the appeal to racial inferiority that is found in earlier generations of thinkers. To the extent that the GGS account is satisfying, it allows people to take that difference in material success at face value without commiting them to beliefs about the essential "nature" of other people that they find unacceptable. The objective of Diamond's Big Picture is to eliminate the stigma of race. In some alternative universe where there is an earthlike planet with a history largely similar to ours, but no superfical racial differences among people, there would be no audience for a book like GGS. ]]> Why not call Bantu-speaking societies what they are? It’s not that much more technical a term than “blacks”. Throughout the book, Diamond seems to me to cling to terms and categories that he doesn’t need, and I’m not really sure why.

He may need the racial terms for rhetorical reasons. What GGS does is provide a Big Picture account of the difference levels of material success achieved by different “races” of people, as those races were recognized by 18th and 19th century Western thinkers. What makes GGS so attractive to the popular audience, however, is that it provides that account without the appeal to racial inferiority that is found in earlier generations of thinkers. To the extent that the GGS account is satisfying, it allows people to take that difference in material success at face value without commiting them to beliefs about the essential “nature” of other people that they find unacceptable.

The objective of Diamond’s Big Picture is to eliminate the stigma of race. In some alternative universe where there is an earthlike planet with a history largely similar to ours, but no superfical racial differences among people, there would be no audience for a book like GGS.

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By: Dan https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/07/29/delong-diamond-and-savage-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-394 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:33:58 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=68#comment-394 t much interested in the importance of accident and serendipidity at the moment of contact between an expanding Europe and non-Western societies around 1500. That seems a part of Cortes’ conquest of Montezuma, or the early beginnings of the Atlantic slave trade, when West African practices of kinship slavery fed quite incidentally into exchange with Portuguese explorers who weren’t there for slaves at all. It may be that such accidents are not the cause of the material disparity that Yali describes, but in many cases, they’re what makes the contemporary world feel the way that it does. It’s not that Diamond argues against such matters, but he doesn’t leave much room for them to matter, either." Exactly. Said it far worse, myself, over on Brad's blog. The question, though, whether this is an inevitable byproduct of macroscopic (and macrostructural) explanations, or if it is possible to build accounts sensitive to multiple levels of analysis. I've been wresting this kind of problem for a while. I have some forthcoming work that explores it in the context of European state formation.]]> “I also feel a bit at a loss with any big-picture history that isn’t much interested in the importance of accident and serendipidity at the moment of contact between an expanding Europe and non-Western societies around 1500. That seems a part of Cortes’ conquest of Montezuma, or the early beginnings of the Atlantic slave trade, when West African practices of kinship slavery fed quite incidentally into exchange with Portuguese explorers who weren’t there for slaves at all. It may be that such accidents are not the cause of the material disparity that Yali describes, but in many cases, they’re what makes the contemporary world feel the way that it does. It’s not that Diamond argues against such matters, but he doesn’t leave much room for them to matter, either.”

Exactly. Said it far worse, myself, over on Brad’s blog. The question, though, whether this is an inevitable byproduct of macroscopic (and macrostructural) explanations, or if it is possible to build accounts sensitive to multiple levels of analysis.

I’ve been wresting this kind of problem for a while. I have some forthcoming work that explores it in the context of European state formation.

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/07/29/delong-diamond-and-savage-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-393 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:16:11 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=68#comment-393 Depends on who you ask. Most historians and anthropologists think the overpopulation theory of Rwandan genocide is largely bunk, that it’s premised on old colonial mythico-histories of the region that backdate genocidal ethnic pressures into the precolonial era. I tend to agree: I’m sure that the fertility of the land in the region combined with high population is a small contributing factor, but it’s unimportant in comparison to the nation-state as a political technology, colonial definitions of ethnicity, the role of the development industry, and so on.

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By: joeo https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/07/29/delong-diamond-and-savage-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-392 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:08:14 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=68#comment-392 I like the high level theorizing of “guns germs and steel”. It is good as a popular account of things. And, he is a clear writer.

He is very materialist. I’m sure you are right that he would consider the bantu kin disputes as just details of an agricultural expansion.

In “collapse”, I was suprised that he makes arguments about the Rwandan genocide being the result of overpopulation. Is this something that other people take seriously?

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By: Timothy Burke https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/07/29/delong-diamond-and-savage-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-391 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:41:59 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=68#comment-391 Guns Germs…

Oh, Steel. Got to fix that.

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By: vonbladet https://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/blog/2005/07/29/delong-diamond-and-savage-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-390 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:55:55 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=68#comment-390 “GGM”?

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